The Assembly met at noon (Mr Speaker in the Chair).
Members observed two minutes’ silence.

Assembly Business

Mr Cedric Wilson: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek clarification that may be helpful to the Assembly. I refer to comments made last week by Dr Paisley:
"We have lodged our letters of resignation, but those resignations should take place immediately and should not be postponed." — [Official Report, Bound Volume 12, p294].
What was the result of the lodging of those resignation letters by Dr Paisley and his party members? Have you acted on his desire that they should take effect immediately?

Mr Speaker: As I understand it, Dr Paisley set out the situation clearly, and the position is as he stated it. There is nothing further that I should add to that.

Mr Cedric Wilson: Are we to understand, Mr Speaker, that he was tendering his resignation and those of the relevant Members of his party from the Executive? There has been no public confirmation that that has occurred.

Mr Speaker: The Member is somewhat confused. First, Dr Paisley could hardly have been tendering his resignation from the Executive since, for all his distinction, Dr Paisley is not a member of the Executive. He made it clear that, in the context of resignations by others, the resignation of his party’s Members would take effect.
This is not the first time on which the matter has arisen. Similar letters were previously provided. I take it that Dr Paisley wanted it to be clear beyond peradventure that, should other events take place, we will proceed.

Mr Billy Hutchinson: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it permissible, under the code of conduct and Standing Order 42(4)(b), regarding the Pledge of Office, for Ministers to write newspaper articles in their capacity as Minister, without making reference to the matters that are supposed to be in their portfolio?

Mr Speaker: I will examine the matter and consider the extent to which it relates to Standing Orders — and, therefore, to what degree it involves me — and the extent to which it refers to the ministerial code, which is an Executive matter. As Members will be aware, the code has never been brought to the Assembly for approval. I will look into the matter that the Member has raised and respond to it.

Assembly: Suspension of Standing Orders

Mr Maurice Morrow: That Standing Order 40(1) be suspended in respect of the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00).
The Social Security Fraud Bill is an integral part of the overall strategy of modernising the social security system to ensure that the right money goes to the right people at the right time. The Bill is designed to improve the way in which fraud is detected and to deter potential fraudsters. Members across the Assembly have endorsed my desire to tackle fraud. The Committee for Social Development passed the Bill unanimously. No amendment has been put forward during the passage of the Bill, because Members are aware that I am required by the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to work with the Secretary of State to secure single systems of social security, child support and pensions for the United Kingdom. The Bill maintains parity with Great Britain on social security matters.

Mr Speaker: I remind Members that the matter is the suspension of Standing Orders so that the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill may be taken today. I shall not accept speeches on the subject of the Bill, only on procedural matters. I have had no requests to speak. If the motion is agreed, we shall proceed immediately to the Final Stage. If the motion falls, the Final Stage of the Bill, which is on the Order Paper, also falls and will be taken at a subsequent time. Suspension of Standing Order 40(1) requires cross-community support. If there are Ayes on all sides of the House and no Noes, I shall consider that to be cross-community support.
Question put and agreed to nemine contradicente.
Resolved (with cross-community support):
That Standing Order 40(1) be suspended in respect of the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00).

Social Security Fraud Bill: Final Stage

Mr Maurice Morrow: I beg to move
That the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00) do now pass.
This is a short, but important, Bill. Members are concerned about fraud. The estimated £73 million per annum of public money that is lost due to benefit fraud must be reduced. I shall not go over the provisions of the Bill in detail. However, it will help to reduce that loss, first, through prevention and early detection, using new information-gathering powers, and secondly, by deterrence, using the powers to restrict payments to persistent offenders and the swift and effective punishment of collusive employers.
The Bill represents a measured response to the problem of benefit fraud. I do not suggest that it will eliminate all such fraud. However, it is a reasonable response to the problems that we face, and it will close some of the more obvious loopholes that have come to light in recent years.
I thank the Committee for Social Development for its careful scrutiny of the Bill, and also the Members who took part in the debate.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved:
That the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00) do now pass.

Education and Training for Industry

Dr Esmond Birnie: I beg to move
That this Assembly takes note of the report from the Committee for Employment and Learning ‘Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry’ (1/01R).
On average, each worker in the Northern Ireland economy has a significantly lower output than his or her equivalent in Great Britain, in much of the rest of the European Union, or in the United States. Unless those levels of productivity can be raised, it is doubtful whether we will be able to keep unemployment levels low or generate the resources from which money for necessary social spending, such as on education or health, can be raised.

Mr David Ervine: Will the Member consider the fact that bad management is the reason that productivity is low or not as good as in other places?

Dr Esmond Birnie: I agree with the Member, and he will see that such issues are addressed in the report. Training, research and development can make a massive contribution to the achievement of higher productivity and, to reflect Mr Ervine’s intervention, that includes management training. Many columnists have argued that the skills of the labour force together with spending on associated research and development are the factors that result in any one region or country having a higher rate of economic growth than another. Education and training can contribute strongly to making unemployment, poverty and social exclusion less likely. There are strong grounds for regarding training for industry and its associated research and development as one of the most important challenges faced by the Assembly and the Executive.
We are not, however, arguing that the only value of education is its contribution to the economy. In early 2000, the Committee decided to initiate an inquiry into the contribution of the education system to industry and the research and development base in the universities. We have now completed that inquiry and are grateful to all who contributed. We had almost 40 oral evidence sessions and received over 100 pieces of written evidence. I thank especially the Clerk, the Committee staff, the three special advisers, our researcher, and all the Committee members for their hard work in bringing this substantial report into being.
(Mr Deputy Speaker [Sir John Gorman] in the Chair)
The level of interest generated by the inquiry was heartening. It indicates the importance of the subject and the widespread willingness to contribute to shaping improvements and policy in these areas and to do so by working with the institutions of devolved Government. The Committee supports the many initiatives in this area that the Minister and his Department have taken since devolution, and our recommendations are designed to enhance the impact of many of them. We do not underestimate the challenge that we face. Since as long ago as the mid-nineteenth century, official reports have argued that British schools are failing to meet the needs of industry. Even at that early stage a contrast was drawn with other countries, notably Germany. We all remember Tony Blair’s famous slogan before the 1997 election when he said that his aim was "Education, education, education."
All around the world, education for industry, technology and the promotion of entrepreneurship has become a holy grail for economic strategy and policy. There are, however, steps that can be taken at the level of our regional Government, and one of those is to make the necessary tough decisions on the allocation of spending between Departments. While almost every area of public spending claims to be underfunded, it is clear from the evidence given to the Committee’s inquiry that higher and further education and aspects of training require additional significant financial resources.
The Department for Employment and Learning has a strong case in a climate of interdepartmental competition for resources, given that many of its spending activities can be seen as investments that will lead to future economic growth and, hence, to the resources to fund future public spending. Where possible and appropriate, industrial and other non-Government sources of funding should be accessed.
Further action is required to correct the low levels of adult literacy and numeracy in Northern Ireland. That has been said frequently in the House. Other Departments have a responsibility to ensure that that serious problem is not perpetuated in future generations.
The Committee is anxious to maintain a geographical spread of further education provision. At the same time, there are grounds for some colleges to specialise in certain activities, and thereby attempt to secure positions as centres of excellence. We should encourage further education colleges to improve the statistical database of students and staff and to make it more consistent. Where possible, information technology modules should be included in further education courses.
With regard to higher education, the Northern Ireland universities have had to cope with a rapid increase in student numbers in the last decade. That increase has far exceeded the growth in public funding of higher education. That is a UK-wide phenomenon, and it has generated considerable strain. The Committee shares the concern of those commentators who note the serious decline in the real level of funding for Northern Ireland university- based research and development in the 1990s, which contrasts with its continued growth in Great Britain and its recent rapid expansion in the Republic of Ireland.
The universities can help themselves through the best possible performance in the research assessment exercise. At the same time, the Committee supports the creation of a separate pot of money, over and above that of the research assessment exercise, which can be devoted to research that reflects strategic or regional needs in Northern Ireland. I declare an interest in that subject, as I am on unpaid leave of absence from one of those universities.
The Committee wants to see business/education links promoted with vigour. It is pleased that the Northern Ireland Business Education Partnership now has a wider remit. However, the number of teacher placements in industry should be increased. In Scotland, one in 14 teachers — roughly 7% — has been placed in industry for at least one week. That compares to approximately 0·2%, or one in 400, of teachers here.
Careers education and guidance is a crucial area, and the staff who work in that field should be given esteem commensurate with the importance of their work. Careers education should be as up-to-date as possible, and therefore should make maximum use of information technology. Guidance provision should always put the interest of the recipient first, rather than any financial interest of a particular teaching institution.
While we await the completion of the Fulton review of the careers service, the Committee recommends that the Department give close attention to the recent development of careers education in places such as Wales. One cross-cutting matter of particular concern is the trend in subjects being studied at A level. Young people are voting with their feet against crucial disciplines, such as certain sciences and mathematics. Everything possible should be done to encourage an increase in the popularity of such subjects.
Even though the Northern Ireland labour market may now, sadly, be moving into a cyclical downturn, we believe that our findings on sectoral skills shortages are likely to be of lasting significance. Although the Committee commends the Department’s attempts to better marry types of labour demand and supply, more could be done to make the variety of agencies involved comprehensible to the private sector. The structure of Northern Ireland’s training organisations and sectoral training councils should be streamlined, given wider UK developments in those areas.
Above all, it should be recognised that skill levels in the Northern Irish workforce, in some respects such as sub-degree, technical and craft skills qualifications, fall short of those in Great Britain and much of the rest of the European Union. In the late nineteenth century, this region was one of the workshops of the world. Significant contributions were made to global science and technology. What was once true can be true again. I support the motion.

Mr Mervyn Carrick: The Chairperson has already set the context for the Committee’s inquiry into education and training for industry. It was clear from the outset that the contribution of education and training to Northern Irish industry was of paramount importance. No one denies that education and training have an intrinsic merit in contributing to social and cultural worth, and do not need to be justified through economic payback alone. Nevertheless, it is vital that both education and training systems be geared to meeting economic needs. That dynamic must always be present to meet the demands of a continually changing labour market. We all have a role to play in ensuring that those demands are met efficiently and effectively. Furthermore, we must strive together to guarantee access for all.
At the first evidence session of the inquiry in June 2000, the economic commentator John Simpson told the Committee that it was to be complimented on the ambitious breadth of the inquiry. The terms of reference were, in retrospect, wide ranging. However, I have been heartened by the number of organisations from all sectors in Northern Ireland that have taken the time to work with the Committee to help to shape future policy.
During the inquiry, several areas emerged as vital to education and training systems, around which the report has been structured. I want to briefly focus on three areas of particular importance. Before I do so, I reiterate the Chairperson’s words of appreciation and gratitude to the Committee Clerk, his predecessor, the support staff, special advisers, and research staff. They were a tremendous encouragement to the Committee; they did an excellent job and deserve the Committee’s appreciation and gratitude.
First, I will speak about skills strategies. I acknowledge the work that the Northern Ireland Skills Taskforce and the Priority Skills Unit have done. A report recently published by the task force aims to raise awareness of skills issues and to encourage the development of positive actions and potential solutions. However, more needs to be done to develop a co-ordinated and flexible skills strategy to enable Northern Ireland’s education and training sectors to respond quickly and appropriately to the changing labour market. Any skills strategy must account for the fact that our economy is predominantly comprised of small and medium-sized enterprises. Their training costs can be particularly burdensome, and they find it more difficult to replace any staff released for training.
Neither can the low levels of adult literacy and numeracy in large sections of the community be ignored. The Department for Employment and Learning is preparing an urgently needed basic skills strategy, and the Committee looks forward eagerly to considering it. I must, however, caution that while strategies are important, immediate action is needed. The Committee took evidence on the work of Moy Park Ltd to address basic skills needs in the Upper Bann constituency. The link that Moy Park established with the East Tyrone College of Further and Higher Education was especially commendable.
The Committee also heard from another progressive firm in the Upper Bann constituency. Galen (Pharmaceuticals) has had difficulties in recruiting appropriate chemistry graduates. The decline in the number of students of scientific subjects and mathematics needs to be given serious consideration in the current review of the curriculum for 16- to 19-year-olds. There is a great need for education providers, Government agencies and the media to work together to increase scientific awareness.
The Department for Employment and Learning has worked hard on the image of the further education sector, but much more needs to be done to ensure parity of esteem for vocational and academic education. Geographical spread is essential to ensure local access to further education and to underpin social inclusion. However, that needs to be balanced with further movement towards specialisation in support of particular sections of the economy and the development of centres of excellence as appropriate.
The Department will soon finalise its further education strategy, which should address those issues. It must guide the allocation of funding for the sector. While I welcome the recent improvements in support for further education students, the overall per capita funding for students in the further education sector needs to be increased if it is to achieve its objective of delivering high-class vocational training on a par with academic qualifications.
Several colleges have developed mutually beneficial relationships with local businesses, and those should provide a template for the whole sector. Further education staff, in particular, need to understand the needs of local industry. The Department’s Lecturers Into Industry initiative has already played a part in that, as have the plans for its further development.
I am aware from the evidence submitted to the Committee that further education colleges are only just beginning to develop effective links with industrial development agencies. I urge action to ensure that the pace is increased with the creation of the Invest Northern Ireland agency.
A major review of careers education and guidance was carried out in 1995, but there has been only limited improvement since then. That area is vital, given increasing student numbers in tertiary education. Career choices are often not made until its completion. A job is no longer for life. Many adults face difficult career choices throughout their working lives and need access to career guidance. I was extremely impressed by the work carried out by the Education and Guidance Service for Adults in that regard.
I urge the Department to complete its response to the Fulton report. We need implementation and action sooner rather than later.
The Committee met the Committee for Education and Lifelong Learning from the National Assembly for Wales to discuss in depth the issue of careers education and guidance. It is clear that we have fallen behind our colleagues in Wales and Scotland, who have already opted for career guidance to be delivered to national standards in order to counteract the fragmented range of services at local level. I hope that we can soon achieve a centrally co-ordinated, independent and high-quality service to reflect the new curriculum and the needs of the economy.
The path from education through training to industry needs greater clarification so that stakeholders can understand it more easily. The Department for Employment and Learning has made a significant contribution towards ensuring that education and training systems respond early and effectively to economic indicators. However, much still needs to be done, and the Committee looks forward to collaborating with the Minister and the Department over the report, which sets out the key areas that the Committee believes must be addressed. I commend the report to the House.

Mr Joe Byrne: As a member of the Committee, I endorse the report and congratulate the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson for the way in which they conducted the inquiry.
The inquiry into education and training for industry in Northern Ireland is vital to the training needs of our regional economy in the next 20 years. As a region, Northern Ireland must compete in a global economy through open competition in the EU, and, indeed, in the wider international trading context.
The statistics relating to Northern Ireland’s gross domestic product (GDP) performance remind us that we have a deficit to make up. At present, the average production from workers in Northern Ireland equates to 84% of the UK average. However, when we compare our production performance with the average in either the USA or the EU, we only achieve between 50% and 60%. That is a major concern. Performance is not just the responsibility of workers; management in Northern Ireland is facing a major challenge in trying to improve output.
One of the key issues that the Committee uncovered — and it was made clear through several submissions — was the poor level of literacy and numeracy, particularly in adults. Approximately 250,000 adults lack basic skills in numeracy or literacy. That is a severe handicap to people when they try to find employment, above all, in sustainable jobs. Skills and training pose a major challenge to education and training providers in Northern Ireland, particularly for practical skills training and higher technology skills training for industry.
The Committee received a wide range of submissions from the further education sector, the higher education sector and several community and private training providers. We also received a submission from the Training and Employment Agency. The Committee was particularly impressed by Bombardier Shorts’s submission, which outlined its in-house training facilities. The firm’s basic skills training is very much tailored to the needs of industry, and it impressed on us the need for future skills training to be tailored to those interests.
The Committee was also impressed by the submission from Letterkenny Regional Technical College, which highlighted the importance of further education or regional technical colleges as engines of local economic development.
The Committee made 43 recommendations, but I will not go into detail about those. The Committee found that good statistical information on training output and quality was lacking. The Department needs a statistical information unit to collate, analyse and evaluate skills training. That is much needed and would help in the provision of training tailored to the future needs of our economy.
The Committee had a strong desire to see more resources put into the Careers Advisory Service, particularly in secondary schools and further education colleges. Good careers advice is vital if we are to provide young people with the opportunity to realise their full potential. Young people must understand the different career possibilities that are available through academic, vocational or practical training routes.
We are all aware of the importance of university R&D in enabling manufacturing industry to develop new products — or adapt existing ones — and thus gain a competitive edge. The Committee was concerned at the lack of postgraduate students, who are vital to the development of research and development in our two universities. Postgraduate students will not be interested in R&D unless we also invest in the resources that are afforded to postgraduate students. The most crucial resource in university R&D is the postgraduate student working on a project under supervision.
The Committee is concerned at the lack of co-ordination between the 17 colleges of further education. Training provision for practical skills should be spread throughout Northern Ireland, not just centred in the two main cities or a few other towns. I come from Tyrone, which has a good history of providing workers for the construction industry. It is important to offer skills training in such rural parts of Northern Ireland.
The Committee had a wide-ranging remit. Tackling everything dealt with in the inquiry would be too big a project. However, it is important that it be used as a benchmark for the future provision of skills training in Northern Ireland. I commend the report to the House. I hope that lessons can be learnt, and that education and training providers can boost their contribution, so that young people and adults can avail of good opportunities in future.

Ms Mary Nelis: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the report, and I urge all Members to read it. It is evident from the number of oral and written submissions that the inquiry was long overdue. We should acknowledge the valuable input from education and training institutions, businesses, trade unions, the voluntary and community sectors, student unions, borough councils and churches.
The submissions from such diverse bodies were wide- ranging and informative. If the 43 recommendations are adopted, the concept of the intrinsic value of education and its relevance to job creation and the economy will be embedded in society.
The terms of reference of the inquiry were
"To examine and make recommendations to improve the contribution of further and higher education and training, including university- based Research and Development, to … industry."
That is a challenge for the Committee for Employment and Learning, for the Department and also for joined-up government. Those challenges must be met if we are to collectively pursue a culture of lifelong learning that will create enormous benefits for the individual and for society. We must strengthen, develop and mainstream education, training and industry and North/South co-operation in order to increase and stimulate economic growth. That action must be directed to the provision of real jobs.
The inquiry’s recommendations have assumed critical importance in the light of the current downturn in the global economy. In order to survive, we must implement them. In so doing, we will activate policies central to addressing unemployment, deprivation and social and educational exclusion, which are the lot of many of our young people.
We must make difficult choices if we are to lay to rest the twin evils of joblessness and poverty. We cannot sustain competing economies on this small island. We must set up a further and higher education system throughout Ireland, one which is open, inclusive and delivers high-quality education and training to all. Our overriding need for North/South co-operation in research and development was brought home by many of the witnesses who gave evidence to the Committee.
A major weakness of the report is its failure to identify areas for all-Ireland co-operation that would mutually enhance our prospects of competing in the global market. That is particularly relevant in the field of training provision, and is essential if we are to ensure access to third-level education through adequate student finance. I welcome the U-turn by the Labour Government in that respect.
Current mainstream training is linked to British Government macroeconomic policy. That has had major implications for the North, such as the lack of adequate quality training and job creation. There are regular newspaper headlines on the topic — for example, "EU peace money has trained 22,000 people." However, we rarely hear how that training has produced sustainable, full-time jobs; boosted the economy; upgraded the level of skills; or helped young people to build confidence.
As we have read in many submissions, training is geared to improving employability. However, it is not linked seriously to the provision of real jobs. In the main, the approach to training is top-down. That may, in part, account for the low skills level in the workforce.
Evidence also suggests that, in respect of sub-degrees and craft-trained qualifications, we fall far short of the Republic of Ireland, Great Britain and the rest of Europe. We must not underestimate the extent of the challenge facing us if we are simply to catch up. We recognise the initiatives begun by the Minister and the Department to address those problems, and we trust that the inquiry and its recommendations will speed the process.
There is a strong case in recommendations 9 to 19 for proper acknowledgement of and funding for further education colleges — and especially those in Newry, Armagh, Fermanagh, Omagh and Derry — to enable the development of a strategic, cross-border role for delivering basic skills, vocational education and training equity. This is despite the constraints placed on the allocation of public spending between Departments and the significant additional resources required by the Department for Employment and Learning. It would be an advantage, in the terms of reference and the expansion of the recommendations 31 and 33, if the Executive and the Government of the Twenty-six Counties could explore the possibility of establishing an all-Ireland body to promote and validate vocational qualifications such as NVQs, advanced certificates of vocational education (ACVES), national diplomas and HNDs.
Finally, a LeasCheann Comhairle, I will make a plug for my constituency and the development of Derry. It is the major alternative site for the growth of full-time higher education provision. I ask the Minister to consider establishing a working group to advance recommendations for the development of higher education in the north-west. This should be done in co-operation with the Dublin Government.
I wish to pay tribute to the Committee staff who have done sterling work in the preparation of this report. I urge all Members to give it serious consideration. Go raibh maith agat.

Mr Sean Neeson: I welcome the report, though I was disappointed not to receive a copy until Saturday morning. I am not a member of this Committee, and to do the report full justice more time to study its contents would have been appreciated.
Having said that, it is a good, timely report. I suggest that Members read it in conjunction with the report from the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment on its inquiry into the implementation of ‘Strategy 2010’. During the public sessions of our inquiry, and even in oral submissions, the question of the relationship between training, industry and business came up time and time again. It is important that we take an interdepartmental approach towards the issues at hand; issues that affect not only the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Department for Employment and Learning, but the Department of Education as well. Dealing with enterprise culture starts at an early age.
I again welcome the fact that on numerous occasions Minister Farren and Minister Empey have worked in partnership when dealing with pressing issues. There is a strategic issue here for the Department for Regional Development as well. In ‘Shaping our Future’, reference is made to the provision of educational facilities on a regional basis throughout Northern Ireland, so an interdepartmental approach is required.
It is critical that the institutions provide the skills necessary to meet the needs of the economy. Recommendation 8, which rightly draws attention to the fact that there is a need to provide skills for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), is important. The backbone of industry in Northern Ireland is small businesses, and it is important that that be reflected in new education provision.
By the same token, I acknowledge that when Nortel was expanding — before its sad decline due to global recession — many further education institutes provided and developed the skills necessary for that industry. That was very welcome, and devolution has given opportunities to develop such provision.
I draw Members’ attention to recommendation 22 on the need to further increase the number of university places in Northern Ireland. The Department is working towards that, but far too many young people leave Northern Ireland for other parts of the UK and never return. We have lost many of our more talented people because there were not sufficient university places available in Northern Ireland. I hope that the Minister does not mind me reiterating the view that is shared by the vast majority of Members about student fees. Those fees must be abolished if we are to provide the equality of opportunity that is required.
Recommendation 28 refers to New Deal and to the need to monitor progress. I agree with that, but the Department and the Minister must seriously consider the vacuum that has been left with the demise of the ACE jobs. The impact of that is still being harshly felt in my constituency. I may have been critical of the level of skills development under the old ACE scheme, but at least the scheme contributed to meeting an important community need, particularly for the more vulnerable members of society.
Recommendation 28 also refers to equality of opportunity in training. That is an important issue. When the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment was considering its report, the need to provide equality of opportunity — particularly gender equality — in the workplace became very clear. We made recommendations in relation to those matters.
The report quite rightly highlights the importance of research and development. That is vital, especially given the new circumstances that we face following the events of 11 September. However, I am disappointed at the delay in setting up the science park in Belfast’s Titanic Quarter. I understand that the delay is through no lack of enthusiasm on the part of those charged with the task of establishing the organisation; rather, it is because of planning issues. If we are to have joined-up government and an interdepartmental approach, such issues must be addressed.
The report recognises the importance of information and communication technology. That issue kept cropping up, so I particularly welcome recommendation 19, which states that full-time students in further education should have one component in information and communication technology training. I ask Members to look back at recommendations 27 and 28 of ‘Strategy 2010’, which dealt specifically with further education and training and the commercialisation of new technology, as they deal directly with today’s topic of debate.
As a former teacher, I — and I am sure that this applies to Assembly Member Carson also — recognise the need to provide opportunities for placement in industry for teachers, particularly those involved in careers guidance.
This is a good and welcome report, but it can only be implemented if the resources are made available. I hope that they will be. The development of skills for the twenty-first century is vital to the people and communities of Northern Ireland, and when we provide the necessary facilities, TSN must be taken into consideration. I support the motion.

Prof Monica McWilliams: Some of the background research commissioned for the inquiry pointed to four main problems with education and training for industry. The first was the low percentage of workforce qualification levels in Northern Ireland. The qualification mix is not what Northern Ireland needs, and some qualifications are dated. One of the most important conclusions was that we do not have enough people with intermediate types of skills. Clearly, we must do something about that. The statistics for job-related training are also relatively low. Finally, employers’ commitment to human resource development and investment is also lower than it is elsewhere.
We know what the problems are. The report includes a number of recommendations. I would also advise drafting a vision for the future along the following lines: we must enhance our human capital; we must have better and more flexible training; and education and employment services must be targeted towards identified growth services and sectors. One of the problems is that too much of our training is supply-driven; not enough of it is demand- driven.
Secondly, we need to tap into our local knowledge and expertise. A major recommendation of the report — and this must be part of our vision for the future — is to link higher education, further education and our centres of research excellence to optimise innovation.
Thirdly, the report points to offering more and better pathways to social integration — opening up access to jobs and training for those who were previously excluded.
Fourthly, we must modernise with a broader economic base, so as to shift from the old to create the new. We must create niches of high-value specialisation. I recognise the problem of simultaneously exposing ourselves to the vulnerabilities and volatility of modern global markets by becoming overdependent on any one particular sector. Unfortunately, as we know, Northern Ireland has suffered greatly from such overdependence in the past.
Finally, we must create high-quality working and training environments to induce our talent to stay here and at the same time to attract researchers and investors to come to Northern Ireland. Much of what we heard was about old infrastructure, about buildings that were falling down — unattractive environments for people to be trained in and not the places that adult learners should be returning to. They were put off so much by what they had previously experienced that they never wanted to return.
The key view of many participants who gave evidence was that we needed to build more partnerships.
What struck me very forcibly was the evidence that we took from the providers in the South. FÁS, the Irish training and employment authority, made the point that it had had to go through a period of rapid change. The colleges there had to face up to forming consortia: further education colleges, or technical colleges as they were formerly known, coming together to specialise. However, too many of them were providing too much of the same, rather than anticipating changes in the labour market and the needs of new investors in a flexible and rapid fashion. They have changed enormously, and we could learn a lot from that.
Currently, colleges in Northern Ireland are competing instead of co-operating. Someone needs to take a strong hand on that, and I ask the Minister to put in place a strategy for further education. The demands are not being met in the way that they should. The strategy should be anticipating changes as well as attracting young people into further education colleges and sending them out well trained, whether with modern apprenticeships or the skills that are in demand.
The evidence from the district councils was interesting. Banbridge District Council made a strong case that while district councils, LEDU and local enterprise agencies worked together, further education, higher education and the T&EA were not currently part of this collaborative effort. There needs to be a response to such statements.
There is concern that a unit should be developed. No doubt the Minister will tell us that there are agencies or units within the Departments that have some kind of workforce strategy and are developing ways to respond to future labour market needs. I sit on the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety, and I am concerned that the Health Minister intends to carry out a workforce strategy, as there are enormous shortages. This report relates to industry, but if we are to have an interdepartmental approach, it might be useful to have a look, right across the Departments, at the workforce needs in Northern Ireland, and to have a strategy in place for that.
Another concern highlighted in the report relates to the careers service. Scotland and Wales have tackled this problem, brought together a number of providers in partnership, and examined how business and education can relate to industry. That is not the case in Northern Ireland. A report on that will be published shortly, and I cannot anticipate its recommendations. However, those giving evidence said that the current level of careers advice at secondary school level left a lot to be desired. That was a major concern.
Secondly, they need to develop a mechanism to feed information about the skills shortages into the education system. An engineering firm made the point that it had huge skills shortages, and yet was not aware that teachers and careers advisors were knowledgeable about these skills shortages. We must modernise our careers service as soon as possible.
It would probably be useful to hear about ‘career window’. What happened to ‘career window’? It was to be an Internet service that could provide information. Resources were set aside for that, but it seems to have disappeared. Our researchers found that there was a lower use of Internet services in Northern Ireland. That is a problem for us. The promotion of the Internet among young people is important, but we must remember that the socially excluded do not always have access to such services. If we have gone down the road of introducing ‘career window’, can the Minister say when it is to take effect and what its importance to the careers service will be?
Clearly there are issues surrounding the curriculum — it seems that many of the matters that I am talking about begin with the letter "C" — and it has been one of the major problems in Northern Ireland. While Germany and Sweden have pointed to a mix of academic and vocational qualifications, Northern Ireland has done better in the academic field than in the vocational field. We need to start promoting parity between the two.
As a former academic — I should not say "former", given the current state of the Assembly — I am conscious that this is a very difficult job. There is a problem with the pathway between the vocational and the academic — it should be a lattice rather than a ladder. Currently a great deal of emphasis is put on academic and professional qualifications, particularly by parents. They must be made aware that there are many opportunities. The A-level content of the new curriculum could be changed accordingly. It is interesting to hear that the GNVQ is to be retitled as a "vocational A Level". That may make people look at it differently. Other countries have made a better job of this. We can learn from their experiences, as the report indicates. The Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment said that the number of pupils who currently mix academic and vocational subjects is not known. The database is inadequate in that respect.
We were also very impressed by the promotion of the worlds of employment and education through services such as the Northern Ireland Business Education Partnership (NIBEP). They speak to clusters of businesses. They provide mentors and role models. I was particularly taken by the fact that they are targeting socially deprived communities. It is too often the case that businesses make links only with the grammar school sector. So it was important to hear that work experience, enterprise awareness and commercial understanding are being promoted through teacher placements and school placements. I repeat the statistics mentioned by the Chairperson. Scotland was able to provide 600 teacher placements, whereas we could provide only 45. The statistics speak for themselves. Nevertheless it is good to hear that 1,000 business advisers are now participating in schools in Northern Ireland.
he main theme that comes across is that this is now part of the mainstream. When we reflect on our school days, how many of us in the Assembly can say that we had opportunities to hear from business and industry representatives or to go out on work experience? That has changed. However, much more needs to be done, and we are concerned about the underfunding of organisations such as NIBEP.
We heard about equal opportunities issues and barriers to training. The benefit regulations show the need for interdepartmental partnerships between the Department for Social Development, the Department of Education, the Department for Employment and Learning and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment. A more co-operative approach must be taken by the Departments. There are concerns about the eligibility rules. How meaningful is the training for those on the New Deal programme? I have heard from constituents who felt that the training was demeaning, did not lead to productive employment and was simply a way to continue to manipulate the employment statistics.
The positive action programmes were important for women. The Women’s Training, Enterprise and Childcare organization (Women’s TEC) talked about the importance of giving women confidence in a women-only training environment, especially in areas which are traditionally stereotyped as men’s jobs, such as construction. They were able to encourage women into these jobs and into the area of information and communication technology. They also provide on-site childcare. The Minister has visited projects where he has seen this at first hand, and we encourage him to continue with that.
There were also, as Sean Neeson has pointed out, examples from the community of adult learning and community-based learning that we should be able to tap in to. The Chairperson was able to visit not-for-profit organisations in the United States and saw that there seems to be much greater collaboration between business and enterprise and community leadership. Given the amount of funding that is going into these areas, and particularly into the social economy, that is obviously something that we should be building on.
One of the major points of the report is the need for reorganisation. Representatives from the further education sector complained that there are too many private training providers and that the sector is unable to compete with them. There is a plethora of national training organisations, sectoral training councils, and other providers; that is creating confusion. A much more strategic approach to training is needed. Perhaps there is an urgent need to look at how these bodies are collaborating — or are they competing against each other? The good practice models of the universities in Northern Ireland and the incubator schemes to enable higher education providers to reach out to business and the community should be encouraged.
A major recommendation is that the research assessment exercise is not helpful, given that sufficient credit is rarely given to researchers who apply their work to a Northern Ireland context. I emphasise the Northern Ireland Economic Council’s recommendation that 10% of that research should be given credit where it applies to the Northern Ireland situation. Perhaps that would encourage more academics to produce work that is of relevance and that can be fed back into the economy here rather than to international journals that are not always relevant to Northern Ireland. That would encourage applied research so that researchers would not tend to look at their work solely from the point of view of how it will enhance their careers.
Finally, there is the question of an employer levy. Is the employer levy productive and should we be introducing it? It ring-fences the needs for training. Both France and Australia have this. We took contradictory evidence in Northern Ireland, and it would not be surprising to hear that the trade unions here were in favour of the levy and businesses were not.
It is argued that for such development in any country, materials, manpower, marketing, management and money are needed. The report addresses, in particular, the issues of manpower, skills, education and learning. In the end, the Minister will be asked "Where is the money for it?".

Mrs Joan Carson: As a member of the Committee for Employment and Learning, I commend this report to the Assembly. I thank all the Committee staff for their hard work — we could not have battled through all of the submissions and the reports without their being well tabulated for us. I welcome the input into this inquiry from industrialists, employment agencies and education providers. Sitting there each day, and as a former primary school principal, I was extremely worried. We have always had pride in our education system and manufacturing expertise.
For many years Northern Ireland led in industrial development and achieved remarkable export results, et cetera, in spite of ongoing terrorism for 30 years. However, this view of our education system will change for everybody when they read this report and see the evidence from the industrialists. The submissions to the Committee catalogued the failure of the present system to educate our young people properly and prepare them to meet the requirements of industry.
A submission from one firm gave examples of employees who were incapable of doing their job because of a lack of literacy and numeracy skills. That can produce an adverse effect on production and product safety. The firm’s submission stated that some of its employees could not count pieces of a product into a bag, identify the letters of the alphabet, or identify the days of the week. The firm ended its submission with a plea that all students must achieve basic levels of numeracy and literacy before they leave school. It is not the responsibility of industry, secondary level education or higher and further education to tackle literacy and numeracy.
One of the engineering firms stated that careers guidance must be radically overhauled. Another firm stated that it had received a visit from chemistry teachers, and 99% of them had not considered employment in industry.
The evidence from the Education and Training Inspectorate was particularly interesting. The Committee heard that the difficulties with literacy and numeracy were common across 17 colleges. However, one of the witnesses said he was
"always slightly bemused when people talk about employees who cannot add up to nine, and so on. To be honest our evidence is not of a system in further education, or anywhere else, dreadfully failing our young people on this scale. Of course, there are exceptions, and we dare not be complacent".
That was not what the Committee was getting from other submissions.
As a former primary school principal I know that Members cannot afford to be complacent. The crux of the problem highlighted in the report is not about education failing young people at secondary or further education level; it is about education failing young people at primary school level. Screening for problems at primary school level would be a start.
A remedial programme is a necessity for the 16-plus age group, but the root of the problem is in the primary school sector and it should be tackled there. I do not blame the teachers; the problem is with the bureaucratic pressure imposed on them. I ask for action now, not only for funding of the lifelong learning projects and liaisons with industry, but also for progress in the primary school sector to solve the problems of literacy and numeracy. I support the motion.

Mrs Annie Courtney: I welcome the report. The agreed terms of reference were
"To examine and make recommendations to improve the contribution of further and higher education and training, including university- based Research and Development, to Northern Ireland industry."
Part of the Committee’s rationale was to determine the way forward for Northern Ireland to increase its productivity in the global marketplace. Northern Ireland’s productivity is significantly lower than that of its competitors. As has already been said, productivity is only 84% of that in the UK and just over 50% of that in the USA.
Education and training increase productivity levels, which in turn increase social inclusion. That, on an individual basis, will lead to higher earnings. The Committee gathered information from as wide a range of people and organisations as possible. The Committee for Employment and Learning is supportive of the infrastructure and the initiatives that the Minister and the Department have put in place since devolution.
The report is a timely contribution to an important debate. The economic environment is constantly evolving. The Programme for Government states that the Northern Ireland Executive is committed to developing a knowledge-based economy. The Foyle constituency, which I represent, has seen a significant growth in the IT sector, although there is still a long way to go in the north-west.
The North West Institute of Further and Higher Education in Derry made a significant contribution to the evidence gathering. The director of the institute, Peter Gallagher, and his deputy, Seamus Murphy, gave much oral evidence to the Committee. In addition, Dorothy McElwee and her associates from the North West Institute gave oral evidence on New Deal. Derry City Council supplied further written evidence. The future of our education, skills and development is in lifelong learning.
The downturn in the world economy after the appalling attacks on 11 September will be felt locally. The recent announcement from Bombardier Shorts is evidence of that. That will be the biggest mass redundancy here in recent times, and the knock-on effect has still to be realised. Maydown Precision Engineering Ltd in Derry is still waiting to hear if its production will be affected. In the run-up to Christmas, workers can only hope that the fallout will not affect them too badly, if at all.
This weekend there was the further announcement that Marketing Database Associates Ltd would not be setting up in Derry in the foreseeable future. The Boston- based firm was to have established a major call centre there. The development was announced about six months ago, and the firm took over a former shirt factory and employed 26 people. Not only will those people now lose their jobs, but the expected 150 new jobs will not be realised.
There will be a knock-on effect for local suppliers. People who supply office equipment and personal computers are very much affected. Some of those firms have outstanding accounts, and those may be sufficient to put some of them out of business. I hope that that is a worst-case scenario and that it will not happen. It is therefore more important than ever that we should be able to respond with speed, quality and flexibility to changes in the demands of industry.
The Committee has made 43 recommendations that are all worthy of consideration. I hope that the Minister will refer to some of his priorities. I know that he is committed to developing a culture of lifelong learning, and excellence in learning and training. People are at the heart of economic growth. I stress that we need structures built around people, not the other way round. Foreign investment adds value to the local economy, and we must encourage it. I commend the report, and I support the motion.

Mr Roy Beggs: I want to put on record my appreciation of the staff who collated the information during our oral and written evidence taking. It has been worthwhile, and many important issues have emerged. I will try not to go back over the many issues that have already been covered; instead, I will flavour my comments with my own experience and interest. I hope that that will be of some benefit to the discussions.
First, I want to comment on recommendation 1, which highlights the poor levels of basic adult educational skills in Northern Ireland. That is an area that is becoming increasingly important, not only to the people involved — and because of the social exclusion that may result — but to the economy of Northern Ireland. Unemployment levels are much lower than they were in previous decades, and we must try to continue to improve people’s educational attainments so that they, in turn, can take up job opportunities when those exist.
In an answer to a written question, the Minister advised me that 44% of the unemployed have no educational qualifications. We must continue to target that and to improve our education levels. Recommendation 4 is for a review of the curriculum for 16- to 19-year-olds, so that it will become increasingly relevant. In particular, we have highlighted the weaknesses in scientific subjects. I want to draw Members’ attention to some of the information that was highlighted during the evidence sessions. In particular, there may in this detailed report be lessons for members of the Education Committee that may not have been immediately obvious.
At one evidence session, Ms Carol Phillips from Bombardier Shorts advised the Committee that some students were struggling with a course at Belfast Institute of Further and Higher Education (BIFHE). The college expected a high failure rate, but Bombardier expected and wanted people to succeed. Bombardier was willing to do whatever needed to be done to ensure that the students in whom it was investing would succeed. Bombardier and BIFHE formed a partnership to review the students’ curriculum. Time and money was invested in the course and the net result of incorporating new projects into the syllabus was renewed interest from the students because the course was relevant. Following that, students had a 100% pass rate where previously they had been failing. It is not rocket science. It is a matter of making the course relevant, changing the curriculum where necessary and enabling students to retain an interest in the subject. That is a basic concept that should be applied to all areas in which difficulties are being experienced.
Recommendation 10 states that
"Decisions regarding the development of centres of excellence at individual colleges should stem from the overall strategy for the sector."
I support that recommendation, which would develop expertise and enable some people to specialise, as everybody cannot do everything. However, the Committee has added a caveat that
"This should be underpinned by a commitment to innovative schemes, which increases access and supports a geographical spread of provision across Northern Ireland."
We are saying that basic courses for which there is an undoubted demand from all over Northern Ireland must be well spread throughout the Province. However, there will have to be a degree of specialisation if we are to reach levels to enable us to compete with other regions.
I must plug my own constituency, which remains the only one in Northern Ireland to not have a permanent further education campus. The people of Larne and Carrickfergus are badly served by the current further education structure. The lowest wage levels in Northern Ireland are also to be found in those towns. A low level of attainment at NVQ level 4 is to be found in the same areas. Those issues are all related. Neither the informal education structure nor educational bodies such as Proteus (NI) Ltd and the Educational Guidance Service for Adults have been sufficiently provided for. I strongly support a wide geographical spread so that no area is discriminated against and the educational needs of all are addressed.
Some of the historical difficulties with the informal structure may be related to the relatively low levels of community activity in East Antrim. That is another problem that the Departments must address collectively so that people will be able to get on to the educational ladder to improve their own abilities, which will increase their self-worth and the opportunities open to them.
Recommendation 17 refers to the establishment of
"Closer links with local industry, industrial development organisations, including increased staff participation in the Lecturers into Industry initiative".
I have become aware of past failings through my work in the Committee and through my interest in the subject.
I was astounded when an assistant director of a local college told me that until a couple of years ago the IDB had never made contact with a further education college. In the USA and Europe, a key factor in an investment decision is the local education provision and how it will marry with a company’s needs. The IDB has begun to address that issue, and I hope that Invest Northern Ireland will dramatically increase interaction with local colleges. Introductions should be made so that new employers coming into Northern Ireland can feel confident that they will receive support. There are, undoubtedly, good examples of local colleges that have developed courses with local and international companies. That should be standard practice.
Colleges must work towards creating better contact with local employers. The Committee’s recommendation affects institutions other than the Departments. Everyone concerned must try to improve and increase partnerships. Partnership is the key word in any developing region, and groups should work together for the benefit of all.
Recommendation 26 calls for a more comprehensive and streamlined national training organisation and a sectoral training council. The evidence highlighted many employment sectors that are not covered by the current structures. That means that those sectors are not publicising or addressing the issues that concern them. There is also duplication and overlap. Procedures must be restructured and streamlined to bring them into line with the national training organisations. In that way we can easily have an input into changes — for example, changes to NVQs. We can also contribute to the national structure and air the Northern Ireland perspective.
Recommendation 36 states the need for an independent, comprehensive and up-to-date careers education and guidance service. As one of the younger Members of the Assembly, I can recall my own school days. Careers guidance consisted of two limited 15- or 30-minute sessions. The provision of careers guidance rests largely on teachers, who may have a limited perspective on the outside world and the needs of industry or employers.
There is potential for conflict, because it is difficult for a teacher in one school to recommend that a pupil should take up a course in another school. At a time of keen competition for student numbers between schools and colleges, it is convenient to recommend the easy option that pupils should continue their education in the familiar surroundings of their current college or school. The full range of options may not be given an appropriate airing. Careers guidance should be more comprehensive and independent so that students are made aware of every employment opportunity. In that way they can take a more reasoned view on continuing their education or commencing employment.
During the oral sessions, one of Northern Ireland’s leading companies, Galen (Pharmaceuticals), told the Committee of its difficulty in recruiting biochemists and chemists, even though job opportunities were available. Professors at the universities said that places were available on chemistry courses, but that they could not get students to take those places.
When university places and relatively well-paid jobs are available, what is wrong with the current structure? Why are those wonderful opportunities not being better highlighted to schools and further education colleges? Something in the system is surely failing. Unless the educational requirements of industry are met, companies will go elsewhere or, as with Galen, will recruit from Europe and further afield to get the specialisation that they require.
It is important that we build on existing opportunities and that young people be shown those opportunities at an early stage. It is not enough to encourage people to take an O level or an A level in a subject. Clear information should be available early on so that students can assess the current job vacancies in Northern Ireland and how much they could be earning. Students should consider that when choosing their A levels and university courses. Currently that information is not easily available.
There was much merit in the information we received on the careers guidance service in Wales, where an independent service has been developed. I am not saying that it should simply be imported en bloc — there are criticisms of it — but the concept of an independent guidance service, where there is no self- interest and where quality information is given to students irrespective of their school or college, is there. That service is of high quality; it is up-to-date and independent. That is not only desirable but essential if the needs of industry are to be met in the future.

Sir John Gorman: I call the Chairperson of the Education Committee. Please keep your remarks fairly concise.

Mr Danny Kennedy: Thank you for that useful tip — would that others had heard it earlier.
I welcome the report on education and training for industry. I congratulate the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Members and officials involved. The report covers a wide range of issues and makes important recommendations.
My remarks will be less detailed than I would have liked, but I want to make some initial comments. There is no doubt that education and training lie at the heart of Northern Ireland’s ability to provide a highly competitive, skilled and adaptable workforce, capable of meeting future demands. That is absolutely vital in a strong and vibrant economy. I welcome the Committee’s recommendations to improve links between business and education, and those to ensure parity of esteem for academic and vocational qualifications.
During evidence on the review of post-primary education, the Education Committee was told by a number of organisations, including the Confederation of British Industry and the Institute of Directors, of the shortage of employees with the necessary skills and aptitudes for today’s workplace.
The evidence we received overwhelmingly suggested the need for parity of esteem between academic and vocational qualifications. Our report will be published shortly, and it will highlight those issues. We will also carefully scrutinise Mr Gerry Burns’s recommendations in his report on the review of post-primary education to determine their potential and whether they can be implemented into any new education system.
I must record my dismay at the findings of the Committee for Employment and Learning on the low level of adult literacy and numeracy among large sections of the community. There is undoubtedly a link between poor basic skills, unemployment and exclusion. The current system has failed these people. I hope that initiatives to address their problems can be brought forward speedily, and I will wholeheartedly support them. While it may be true that the main problem lies with people who left school some time ago, there is no room for complacency. We must provide young people with those skills.
The Committee for Education welcomed the new targets for literacy and numeracy included in the new public service agreements, but was slightly disappointed that they were lower than those outlined in the strategy for numeracy and literacy. We pressed the Department of Education on that matter. As a top priority, we will scrutinise and monitor the work of the Department to ensure that appropriate action is being taken to enable those targets to be at least met and, if possible, improved upon, so that young people have the best possible start in life.
We need careers education and guidance to assist young people to make the best choices in their careers. The report highlights concerns about the quality of careers advice and the perception that academic courses are promoted in preference to vocational ones.
I agree with the recommendation by the Committee for Employment and Learning of a system that provides a high-quality service to all its users, reflects the opportunities available in the economy and equally promotes academic and vocational careers. I anticipate appropriate action to achieve that in the near future.

Dr Sean Farren: I thank Dr Birnie and the Committee for their thoughtful consideration of this vital aspect of my Department’s responsibility. Like other Members of the House who are not members of the Committee, I have not had sufficient time to reflect on the report in detail. However, I certainly appreciate and welcome the Committee’s intentions to improve the quality of education and training provision for our young people and to enhance the skills of our workforce and of those not at present in employment. The report is a valuable contribution to an essential debate and a fine example of how our institutions are able to interact with the wider community. Given the large number of organisations and institutions which presented evidence to the Committee, it is also an example of the close engagement, attention and interest on our part in the developments which are taking place in the sectors relevant to the work of my Department.
I trust that we can continue — not just through the Committee for Employment and Learning, but through all of the Statutory Committees — to so engage, and to demonstrate that we can be responsive to the needs of our society.
I fully agree with the Committee’s view on the importance of the subject. The Executive have emphasised the importance of the subject by including education, skills and competitiveness in the Programme for Government. My Department’s aim is to promote a culture of lifelong learning and to equip people for work in a modern economy. Those aims and objectives are reflected in the Programme for Government. They spring from the belief that education and training after compulsory schooling can and do make a powerful contribution to economic position and social inclusion.
Universities and colleges create the vast majority of our higher level and technical skills; universities, as indicated in last year’s report from the Northern Ireland Economic Council, provide a more substantial proportion of our R&D than is the case elsewhere in the UK and Ireland. Colleges and training organisations offer our young people and adults a first and a subsequent opportunity to gain a wide range of vocational, technical or occupational qualifications that allow them to progress to further and higher education or into work. Further education, higher education and vocational training feed directly into the economy and, as they are helping our population to acquire job-related skills, self-confidence and self-esteem, they are also promoting greater social inclusion.
Since I came to office I have endeavoured to promote policies that are in the best interests of those who attend our colleges, training facilities and universities, and the employers and public and social institutions who receive their skills and attributes. I am grateful for the support for these policies contained in the report. I fully accept the spirit of the report as a determined effort to develop and strengthen education and training and to enhance its contribution to the regional economy. It is important to bear in mind the general context in which the submissions were made and in which the report was compiled. It was compiled on evidence that was presented before we had any sense of a recession or a downturn in the global economy. Therefore, over the last year and further back, we were thinking in the context of significant growth continuing over the next few years.
I remind Members that more of our people are employed than ever before, and that our economy has been expanding at a significant rate. Trying to meet the needs that were created by the pressures of the expansion of our economy has not always been easy, particularly when it comes to skills supply. Several Members acknowledged that fact in their remarks.
Some of the developments I have been responsible for include the establishment of a skills task force and the initiation of a series of research projects designed to improve our understanding of the demand side of the labour market. The task force recently published its first comprehensive report, which I commend to Members.
That report covers much of the ground in the Committee’s report, and, set alongside a major monitoring survey of skill needs, it complements and supports many of the Committee’s conclusions.
The support programme for university research is another inititiative. Several Members spoke of the need to invest much more in locally generated research. The support programme will provide over £40 million from a public-private partnership over the next four years to invest in the R&D infrastructure in both of our regional universities.
Last week, I was privileged to launch one of the projects selected as worthy of support by the international panel — the Sonics Arts Centre at Queen’s University. This will bring together the knowledge and scholarship in the creative arts and technology sectors in an intensely creative way. It will also provide opportunities for economic and social activity, as well as for teaching and research. I was pleased to learn that the research that is being undertaken is at the frontier of research in that area. The centre could become a leading research centre in world terms. The Centre for Molecular Biosciences at the University of Ulster will build on the strong research record in this area and provide support for the university’s technology transfer activities. Those are only two of the projects funded through the support programme. Several other projects are in the process of development, some of which will be launched in the near future.
My recent changes to student support, my access measures in futher and higher education, my introduction of individual learning accounts (ILAs) and learndirect and my support for the Northern Ireland credit accumulation and transfer system (NICATS) are illustrative of my determination to embed the principle of lifelong learning in society and open up opportunities for education and training to a much broader cross- section of the community.
As a result of these initiatives, participation in learning has grown considerably, and Members are aware from recent Assembly Questions that we have had an overwhelming response to ILAs in particular. I do not have the most recent figures to hand, but over 50,000 accounts have been opened, although not all are being drawn down at the moment. However, those figures are well ahead of initial projections, and I trust that we will be able to meet the demands for finance so that people can benefit from educational opportunities, particularly in the lifelong learning context that the provision of ILAs opens up. I welcome the Committee’s endorsement of my existing policy direction in these vital areas.
I will move to the essence of the report. At this stage I cannot respond to each of the 43 recommendations. Members will appreciate that there has not been sufficient time to give them the full consideration they deserve. However, I promise to return to those in detail in the near future. I would welcome the opportunity to respond in writing and follow that up in discussion with the Committee. The report is important and deserves no less.
I would like to reflect on some of the main themes suggested by the recommendations and relate my response to the published strategic plan of my Department. I have identified the following five themes: the need for action on poor levels of adult basic skills; a sharper focus, in particular, on information and communication technology skills and on retraining and reskilling the existing workforce or those currently unemployed; the strategic direction of further education and the issues which flow from that; the contribution which the universities can make to the economy and, in particular, to developing the enterprise culture; and the need to develop training provision and related occupational and vocational qualifications.
The issue of basic skills has come before the House on several occasions, not least through Members’ persistent questioning of Ministers. The Committee is aware that basic skills have been identified in its strategic plan as one of the key issues that the Department will face over the coming years. I understand the concerns of the Committee and others about this. It is a significant challenge that must be overcome if the skills levels available in the economy are to be raised and if our population is to aspire to social and personal advancement and esteem.
Officials are working on a comprehensive basic skills strategy for adults, which I hope to bring forward for consultation within the next two months. I recognise the impatience that many people feel about this, and I sympathise with them. However, I ask Members to recognise that it is complex. Existing approaches, while of benefit, have not brought sufficient success. In the 1970s, when I first became involved with higher education, an initiative to address that was launched with a great deal of publicity, and we live with its effects today. We must think carefully about initiatives that we launch now to ensure that they will have the desired effect.
Asking people to come forward and admit that there is a problem is not easy, particularly when it is to do with a basic skills deficit. The image of basic skills work must therefore be transformed, and a wide and comprehensive range of programmes and providers must be involved, including training in the workplace. We have had some experience of that through initiatives that employers have participated in with other education providers, notably further education colleges. Those initiatives have met with reasonable and gratifying success and have encouraged us to build on them. Standards, curricula, assessment arrangements and the professional development of tutors must be worked through. Realistic targets must be identified. In due course, I will welcome the opportunity to share our strategy with the Committee and to seek its support.
I have already mentioned the work of the skills task force, which supports our commitment in the Programme for Government. I fully acknowledge that we must update the relevance and quality of vocational education and training if we are to achieve and sustain our goal of an expanding economy based on knowledge-based industries. All our higher and further education and training providers are aware of this aim and are working towards it. We must also remember that there is, and will continue to be, a significant demand for traditional trades, notably in the construction industry. Evidence suggests an absence of candidates for modern apprenticeships in those areas. In emphasising the skills relevant to the knowledge- based economy, we must not forget that many traditional skills will persist. The demand for those skills will remain considerable, and that demand must be met. We must strike a balance between the two.
The current difficulties in the global economy have had an impact on Northern Ireland. Members have stressed our current situation. In the last year, we have attempted to meet the skills shortage in some of the electronics sectors by providing a training programme tailored to meeting them. We now find that we have difficulty placing trainees who completed that programme, which was set up specially to meet the pressures that existed in those electronic industries.
Let us hope that the difficulties are short-lived. It is to be hoped that we will soon be back into a period of expansion, and will again face the challenge of meeting skills needs.

Sir John Gorman: You are running a little over your time.

Dr Sean Farren: I apologise if I cannot get to all of the Members’ questions or points. I ask you to indulge me with a few more minutes to complete my general overview of the points that were raised. I will reply in writing to Members on points that I do not address which are of particular concern to them.
Careers education has been emphasised by many Members. A review is taking place, and Prof Fulton will report in the near future. A new course at Magee College is being provided to ensure that professional training and development exists locally. Members will see a significant change in career guidance provision. We must remember that independent career guidance is provided through existing jobcentres, so we are not totally reliant on the guidance provided at school level. We need to work on developing and improving that service.
Many Members have referred to the need to strengthen and develop relationships with the business community, particularly through our further education colleges. I certainly endorse that. Members have called for a spread of provision within the further education sector, and for a concentration on specialisation. Members will recall that through funds made available last year, moneys have gone to colleges to encourage them to work together. Several colleges have formed alliances under these auspices, supported by the funds made available. Centres of excellence have been identified in many of our colleges — a point made by several Members. Our further education sector needs to continue providing the broad range of courses that has traditionally been provided.
Frequent reference is made to the institutes of technology in the South. I direct Members’ attention to a strong warning made to the colleges there by an authority, only last week, about the danger of what is described as "upward drift". This, in other words, is moving out of the provision of the broad range of vocational, business and technical courses in order to try to emulate the universities. What we have here is an opportunity to maintain the best of both, and in our strategy we will have that very much in mind.
I take on board points made with respect to the need to keep in touch with developments in how training is organised. I note the suggestion by some Members that there may well be unnecessary overprovision, and competing provision, in some elements of training. It is important to point out that all training providers are subject to supervision, evaluation and assessment by my Department, and the standards are national, not local.

Sir John Gorman: I am sorry, Minister, but you have now used up your time.

Dr Sean Farren: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. Curtailed as I am, I trust that I have attempted to indicate a positive response and a welcome for the report. It is a clear indication of how our Committee system is working well in conjunction with Ministers, enabling us to plan effectively for the future of those areas that we have responsibility for.

Dr Esmond Birnie: I thank everyone who spoke, especially the Minister, the Chairperson of the Committee for Education and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment. I quote from George Bernard Shaw:
"He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career."
The linking of skills and jobs is of general interest and not just for us as individual politicians. Certain themes have been raised repeatedly in the last two hours. These include the need for a comprehensible skills strategy in co-operation with the private sector; the urgency of dealing with the appallingly high level of poor basic adult literacy and numeracy; the importance of having comprehensive careers guidance for young people — as well as for those already well established in the labour force — and the need to reverse a historical trend against funding for university-based research and development.
I apologise to Members for the relatively small period between the arrival of this tome in the post and today’s debate. The report has been lodged in the Business Office for some time, and we did attempt to circulate the relevant recommendations to Committees over a week ago.
The report suggests that workers and managers should be able to stand tall as regards qualifications that are recognised and interchangeable with those in Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland and the rest of the world. Our universities should establish research partnerships whenever it is appropriate, and that may be in a North/South direction, with the rest of the UK, or with the world.
I applaud the Minister for his Department’s objective of embedding a culture of lifelong learning. The Committee will await the result of the current needs and effectiveness evaluation to see what extra resources are needed to realise that goal and to measure the productivity, efficiency and effectiveness of the existing resources. The Committee welcomes his commitment to respond quickly to the recommendations. I am aware that, to use a school analogy, I am racing against the lunch-break bell.
It is very appropriate that we have debated the motion today, because it is about the future. We have done so in a harmonious spirit, and I hope that the media will reflect that. Earlier, there was at least one school party in the Gallery. In a sense we are dealing with their future and the future of all the young people of the Province. Few areas are of greater significance to a regional Government, therefore I urge the House to support the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved:
That this Assembly takes note of the report from the Committee for Employment and Learning ‘Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry’.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’

Mr Speaker: Order. The next 11 motions relate to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’. They are all on similar subjects, and I propose, therefore, to conduct one debate on all of them. I shall ask the Clerk to read the first motion, and then I will call on the Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, who has a problem with his voice today. I hope that he will be able to manage; perhaps Mr Beggs will give some assistance. The debate that will then take place will be on all 11 motions, and I shall call the Chairperson or Deputy Chairperson to make a winding-up speech, if necessary.
I will put the Question on the first motion. I will then have the Clerk read all the motions that are relevant and ask that those Questions be put en bloc. I see no purpose in going through all of them seriatim, unless a Member objects. If a Member objects, we will take the vote on that particular motion separately.
Motion made:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 3 and insert
"The guide is divided into four sections dealing with (1) Registration of Interests (paragraphs 8 to 37); (2) Declaration of Interests (paragraphs 38 to 53); (3) the Advocacy Rule (paragraphs 54 to 64); and (4) Procedure for Complaints (paragraphs 65 to 74)." — [The Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges.]

Mr Roy Beggs: I am pleased to support the motion to amend the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’, which was initially approved by the Assembly on 14 December 1999.
The Standards and Privileges Committee completed an inquiry into the possible appointment of an Assembly commissioner for standards. The Committee report was considered and approved unanimously by the Assembly on 2 April 2001. As a result of recommendations contained in the report, several changes to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ are required. The motions in the Order Paper reflect the necessary amendments. Some additional changes are required because of inaccuracies or omissions in the current guide.
The first motion proposes the deletion of paragraph 3 of the guide and the insertion of the suggested wording. That change will take into account the additional paragraphs 73 and 74 to the guide. The remaining motions propose the deletion of other specified paragraphs of the guide and the insertion of the wording given in the Order Paper. Paragraph 10 will be amended to take account of the provisions of section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, which permits the Secretary of State to
"make provision for the filling of vacancies occuring in the Assembly’s membership".
Paragraph 33 will be amended to include the word "influence", which was omitted from the original guide, thus extending its coverage. Paragraph 67 will be amended to provide clarification of privilege as it relates to complaints against Members.
Paragraph 68 will be amended to provide for all complaints to be referred to the commissioner for standards, in accordance with one of the recommendations in the Committee’s report. The amendments to paragraphs 69 and 70 reflect two of the recommendations in the Committee’s report about reporting arrangements between the commissioner and the Committee.
The amendment to paragraph 71 reflects one of the recommendations in the Committee’s report about the procedures involved in the Committee’s reporting to the Assembly. The amendment to paragraph 72 reflects one of the recommendations of the Committee’s report. Standing Orders empower the Committee on Standards and Privileges to recommend sanctions against Members, but the Assembly will still have the final say.
Finally, paragraphs 73 and 74 have been renumbered. There is no change to their substance.
All these amendments reflect some of the provisions of the Committee’s report on the appointment of an Assembly commissioner for standards, which was endorsed by this House in April this year. I commend the amendments to the House, and I ask Members to support the motion.
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 3 and insert:
"The guide is divided into four sections dealing with (1) Registration of Interests (paragraphs 8 to 37); (2) Declaration of Interests (paragraphs 38 to 53); (3) the Advocacy Rule (paragraphs 54 to 64); and (4) Procedure for Complaints (paragraphs 65 to 74)."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 10 and insert:
"After an election to the Assembly, Members are required to complete a registration form and submit it to the Clerk of Standards within three months of taking their seats in accordance with Standing Orders. For Members returned at a by-election the time limit is also three months from the date on which they take their seats. Members taking their seats in accordance with section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 must also complete a registration form within three months of taking their seats. After the initial publication of the Register, (or, in the case of Members returned at by-elections or in accordance with section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, after their initial registration) it is the responsibility of Members to notify changes in their registrable interests within four weeks of each change occurring."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 33 and insert:
"Members are required to register unremunerated directorships, eg directorships of charitable trusts, professional bodies, learned societies or sporting or artistic organisations, where such a body might directly benefit from public funds or from a decision taken by the Northern Ireland Assembly. Where a Member considers that an unremunerated interest, other than a directorship, which the Member holds might be thought by others to influence his or her actions in a similar manner to a remunerated interest, such an interest should be registered here."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 67 and insert:
"Communications between a Member of the Assembly and the Clerk of Standards and between a member of the public and the Clerk of Standards are not covered by Assembly privilege under section 50 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 nor are they privileged at law. However, should the Commissioner for Standards decide to investigate a complaint, that investigation is privileged. Once the Commissioner reports his findings to the Committee, the proceedings of the Committee in relation to the report are privileged. The privilege attaching to an investigation by the Commissioner and the related proceedings of the Committee do not extend to include allegations made in the original complaint."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 68 and insert:
"All complaints submitted to the Clerk of Standards will be referred by him to the Commissioner for Standards for initial and, if appropriate, detailed investigation. The receipt of a complaint by the Clerk of Standards or the Committee on Standards and Privileges is not to be interpreted as an indication that a prima facie case has been established."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 69 and insert:
"When the Commissioner considers a complaint and concludes that no further investigation is necessary, he will report accordingly to the Committee through the Clerk of Standards."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 70 and insert:
"On completion of a detailed investigation into a complaint against a Member, the Commissioner shall submit a report to the Committee on Standards and Privileges."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 71 and insert:
"If the Committee on Standards and Privileges decides to adopt the findings and conclusions of a detailed report, as mentioned in paragraph 70, that report shall be submitted to the Assembly as part of a report of the Committee on Standards and Privileges."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 72 and insert:
"Where the report submitted to the Assembly in accordance with paragraph 71 deals with any matter mentioned in paragraphs 8 to 64 of this guide, it may contain a recommendation that the Member be excluded from proceedings of the Assembly for a specified period and have his/her rights and privileges as a Member withdrawn for that period."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: insert new paragraph 73:
"The Committee on Standards and Privileges has power under Standing Orders to send for persons, papers and records, to order the attendance of any Member before it and to require that specific documents in the possession of a Member relating to its inquiries or to the inquiries of the Commissioner for Standards be laid before it."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: insert new paragraph 74:
"While it will be usual for the Committee on Standards and Privileges to deliberate in private, the Committee determines for itself whether sessions at which evidence is to be taken shall be held publicly or in private and is empowered to refuse leave for the broadcasting of any public sessions."
The sitting was suspended at 2.18 pm.
On resuming (Mr Speaker in the Chair) —

Education
Holy Cross Primary School

1. asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to protect and vindicate the rights of children and parents travelling to and from Holy Cross Primary School.
(AQO 295/01)


14. asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to bring an end to the daily attacks on the schoolchildren of Holy Cross Primary School.
(AQO 294/01)


A Cheann Comhairle, with your permission, I will take questions 1 and 14 together as they both relate to Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School in north Belfast.
I am concerned about disruption and attacks on pupils at any school. I am therefore concerned about the situation surrounding Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and the disruption and anxiety caused to teachers, pupils and parents. All parents have the right to escort their children to school free from impediment, and children have the right to be educated in a safe and secure environment that is conducive to learning.
The protest is unacceptable and must end immediately. The Department of Education will continue to support the board of governors, the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) and the Belfast Education and Library Board in their efforts to ensure that that is achieved for the pupils attending Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and the nearby controlled school, Wheatfield Primary. Departmental officials are in regular contact with the relevant education authorities and are monitoring the situation closely.
Additional support has been provided to Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and, along with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board, the Department is considering what further assistance may be required by the two schools. In addition, the Executive have established an interdepartmental liaison group of officials and have appointed a senior liaison officer who works from an office in north Belfast that is accessible to all sections of the community. That group has been established to provide regular reports to the Executive on the situation, and the Department of Education is represented on that group at a senior level.
While the Department of Education, along with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board, is providing that support, the situation at Holy Cross Primary School can be resolved only by dialogue between the local communities. I have repeatedly urged local representatives to come together to resolve their issues.


Will the Minister tell the House what support has been put in place for the Holy Cross Primary School teachers and pupils?


Additional staffing has been provided to Holy Cross Primary School, and further support for both schools is under consideration by the Department of Education in conjunction with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board. Funding and approval for two exceptional closure days was given to support the residential course for the teaching staff, and that was used to assist them in dealing with trauma.


I thank the Minister for his response so far. Notwithstanding the present review of post- primary provision — which, it is hoped, will bring an end to the transfer test — will the Minister be able to do anything to ensure that the children of Holy Cross Primary School will not be disadvantaged by their present trauma while sitting the transfer test?


It is vital that pupils sitting the transfer test can prepare properly and are able to sit the test in a stress-free environment. It is hoped that the protest will have ended by 9 November, the date of the first test. Funding has been agreed to enable the teachers to provide additional curriculum support to pupils at Holy Cross who are taking the transfer test this year. The Department has also been in touch with the school authorities, who will take appropriate steps to ensure that the children can take the transfer test in a calm and orderly atmosphere. The Department and the statutory education authorities will do all that they can to help the school achieve that.


Has the Minister implemented any initiatives in other schools, particularly the Belfast Model School for Girls, the Belfast Boys’ Model School, Castle High School, Glengormley High School and Newtownabbey Community High School, all of which have been attacked in the past few weeks? I spoke to officials from Translink today, and there have been somewhere in the region of 146 attacks since 3 September. Are any initiatives being implemented to ensure that Protestant children can travel to and from school without attack? Are teachers being given advice on how to help with that?


My feelings on the situation in the north Belfast area have been made abundantly clear during this period, which has been so detrimental to the pupils, their parents and society.
Attacks on school buses are absolutely despicable and deplorable, and the Department keeps all of this under constant review. Recently I have issued countless statements calling on all those responsible for the attack and intimidation of schoolchildren to bring their activities to an end. Community and political representatives have a huge responsibility to state their opposition to the ongoing abuse of children. It does not matter which section of society, school, or school bus is involved; attacks, intimidation, threats, and abuse of children are totally unacceptable.
The Assembly has an important role to play. Several Assembly Members have recently made positive efforts to encourage dialogue within the community to have this resolved. I commend them for their initiative. They must be supported by Members from other political parties. There is a responsibility on everyone in the House to ensure that we play as constructive a role as possible. We can make it perfectly clear to everyone that it is unacceptable to attack children and that it should end immediately.


I welcome the Minister’s reaffirmation of the right of parents to bring their children to school safely. Fr Troy, the chairman of the school board of governors, has suggested that parents may choose to bring their children to school by car or bus given the current onset of inclement weather. At the same time, they can maintain the right or the option to walk their children to school. What is the Minister’s reaction to that suggestion?


Fr Troy and Anne Tanney, the principal of the Holy Cross Girl’s School, have played heroic roles in the defence of children and their right to education. I salute their leadership and the way in which they have managed a difficult situation.
The right of access to all schools must be maintained; it is vital that people have right of access. However, it is for parents to decide how their children get to school. Parents will have my fullest support whatever their decision. That is the only basis on which we can proceed. People have the right to bring their children to school; they have a right to decide what transport they will use.

Human Rights in Schools

2. asked the Minister of Education to detail what he intends to do to raise awareness of human rights issues in schools.
(AQO 291/01)


It is vital that there be greater awareness of human rights issues throughout the education system, particularly in schools. Human rights and equality are central tenets of the Good Friday Agreement. As part of the process to raise awareness of human rights, the Department recently held a conference on human rights in education, at which I announced several specific initiatives.
First, the Department is funding the appointment of an advisory teacher for a period of two years, who will be based in the Children’s Law Centre. This person will develop human rights information and learning materials. Secondly, I have given my approval to the appointment of five teachers who, working in conjunction with the Human Rights Commission, will assist in raising awareness of human rights issues in post-primary schools, including the consultation on the recently launched proposed bill of rights.
The curriculum also has an important role to play in raising awareness of human rights issues. Members may be aware of the work being carried out by Prof Alan Smith and Mr Michael Arlow of the University of Ulster. That pilot project in a citizenship curriculum is firmly based on human rights values.
My Department and I will continue to work in partnership with the Human Rights Commission and those in the education sector to ensure that human rights issues remain high on the educational agenda.


When will those five teachers be in post?


Recruitment will start shortly, and the teachers will be in post as soon as is practicable.


Are they new posts? How much will they cost? Under which heading will they be funded? How can the Minister justify the posts when schools are making redundancies and are struggling to provide the core curriculum because their level of funding is not high enough?


There is indeed pressure on schools and on the education budget. However, the issue of human rights is important. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement there is a responsibility on all Departments to co-operate with the Human Rights Commission. I have held several meetings with the commission, and I appreciate the important role it plays.
I do not have the details regarding funding for the posts. However, I will write to the Member with that information as soon as I can.

Common Funding Formula for Grant-Aided Schools

3. asked the Minister of Education to detail the timescale for the implementation of a new common funding formula for grant-aided schools.
(AQO 287/01)


I announced on 4 October that implementation of the common funding formula will be postponed until April 2003. The consultation on the Department of Education’s proposals ended on 21 September. The decision to postpone allows more time to consider in detail the responses to the consultation, to prepare legislation, and to complete the necessary groundwork and practical arrangements for the implementation of the formula.


Does the Minister accept that the use of the words "gainers" and "losers" to describe schools in his Department’s consultation document is a cause of disquiet for teachers and governors? Does he agree that the use of such terms, given that they smack of market forces, should have no place in the vocabulary of any educationalist? Given the extended timescale he has announced, the common funding formula should concentrate on the delivery of equal support to all children in all schools.


I was not aware that the use of those words had created problems. I have not received any critical responses. Since the Member has raised the issue, the Department must consider those views. The rationale behind the common funding formula is to bring about a fairer and more equitable education system. Much work remains to be done regarding further consideration of the consultation document and the legislation that will be brought before the House. When the work is completed, the common funding formula will benefit all schools.


Many people are concerned about the common funding formula. There are children in TSN areas who are disadvantaged because of the current funding formula, which is linked to the uptake of free school meals. What steps is the Minister taking to address that issue?


TSN is an important element of the common funding formula. A 10% increase, from £40 million to £44 million, has been proposed. My Department is concerned about the issue.
Great efforts are being made to ensure that TSN is aimed at areas of social need and needy pupils. We are also dealing with important educational indicators in an endeavour to ensure that we are dealing with all pupils who are experiencing difficulties.
The House needs to be reminded that we are working hard with the continuing school support programme and the issue of group 1 schools. It will be understood that a comprehensive view is being taken of this situation and TSN. New TSN will give funds to children with educational needs, and that will enhance our education system and allow us to continue monitoring the situation so that support is directed to pupils who need it.

Mainstream Education

4. asked the Minister of Education what action will be taken to ensure that all young people have a right to mainstream education.
(AQO 293/01)


All children have a right to education, and there is a presumption that that will be provided in a mainstream school. Education and library boards have a duty to ensure that there are sufficient places in their respective areas to meet potential demand.


What is being done specifically about bullying in schools and pupils who are afraid to attend?


Every school is required to have a written discipline policy which must promote self- discipline, good behaviour and respect for others among pupils. Bullying behaviour is unacceptable and should be addressed by schools as part of their existing discipline policies. Many schools have voluntarily developed a separate anti-bullying policy. I intend to strengthen that by taking the next legislative opportunity to make it a mandatory requirement for every school to have and to implement an anti-bullying policy. My Department recently issued guidance to schools on promoting positive behaviour, and that contained advice on addressing bullying.

Post-Primary Schools (First Preference Applications)

5. asked the Minister of Education to detail the number of first preference applications and the number of children admitted to each post-primary school in September 2001.
(AQO 252/01)


The information requested for September 2001 is not available at present. The information for September 2000 is, however, available. This is extensive, and I have placed a copy of the data in the Assembly Library. When the data for September 2001 becomes available I will supply it to the Assembly Library; I will also provide the Member with a personal copy.


I thank the Minister for his response. As this was originally tabled as a question for written answer, I did not expect full details. That would take the entire 30 minutes. Can the Minister, therefore, confirm that integrated schools are, and remain, significantly oversubscribed compared to mainstream controlled and maintained schools? Will he inform the Assembly what action he is taking in the field of transformation to meet this great need?


First, I congratulate the Member on becoming leader of the Alliance Party and wish him well in the future.
Of the 17 integrated post-primary schools, 11 were oversubscribed and 6 undersubscribed. My Department will normally consider any development proposals put forward to increase integrated provision. I intend shortly to announce a change in the viability criteria for post- primary schools.


What is the average percentage of children admitted annually to grammar schools on the basis of first preference after the transfer test at 11, who subsequently pass GCSEs in five or more subjects at grade C or above?


I do not have that information to hand but will write to the Member.

Dyslexic Children

6. asked the Minister of Education what support he intends to give to the primary movement programme for dyslexic children.
(AQO 290/01)


It is essential that innovative research findings be evaluated properly in order to assess their usefulness to the local education system. Two education and library boards have trained teachers in primary movement, and, in conjunction with my Department’s inspectorate, they intend to carry out an evaluation of the method’s effectiveness on children with dyslexia. The findings of the evaluation will be made generally available.


I note that progress on this issue will be made in the future. In the meantime, what is being done in schools to target children with dyslexia?


Provision for children with special educational needs is the statutory responsibility of the education and library boards. It depends on the assessment made, and provision indicated, in each child’s statement of special education needs. However, not all children with dyslexia will have such statements. The provision for children with dyslexia is broadly similar across all five boards. Most provision can be made in-school with supportive organisation and planning. Sometimes outside assistance is given by an education and library board reading centre or by peripatetic, or outreach, literacy support. That assistance may include advice or in-service training for the class teacher and the school’s special needs co-ordinator.
Statements are made on some children whose learning difficulties are particularly severe. In such cases the additional tuition is extended, and information technology equipment may be provided.

Playgroups (Funding)

7. asked the Minister of Education if his policy of refusing funding to playgroups with less than eight children in the immediate pre-school year has been subjected to rural proofing.
(AQO 277/01)


In formulating their pre-school education development plans, pre-school education advisory groups are required by the Department to give particular regard to the needs of rural areas, where existing levels of provision tend to be lowest. However, the minimum group size requirement is one of the key features of the programme. It is designed to promote high-quality pre-school provision that has been applied consistently to all settings regardless of location. The pre-school programme involves an investment of £38 million over a four-year period.


The educational training inspector set the minimum number of children at eight. Given the effect of this number on the rural community, and on the service delivered by the health and social services, were other Departments’ views taken into account in setting that number? How does the policy target social need when playgroups which have been assessed by the educational inspectorate as being of high quality face potential closure for failing to have the magic number of eight children?


The expansion programme is designed to promote the personal, social and emotional development of children. In order to facilitate this development it is important that children learn and play in a group of reasonable size. We must all be aware that voluntary and private centres in some areas are concerned about possible displacement. Officials continue to monitor the situation. The Department holds regular discussions with officers of the relevant pre-school education advisory group on specific cases where concerns have been expressed. However, the Department is not aware of significant or widespread problems.
There are many possible reasons why voluntary and private pre-school education and care providers cease to operate. Together with advisory groups, my officials and I take seriously our responsibility to ensure that the risk of displacement is minimised. An important part of this process is the provision of the pre-school database which sets out the numbers of children in an area in order to inform the decision-making process.


Does the Minister agree that, between the statutory and voluntary sector, people feel that there is now a two-tier system? When a playgroup drops in numbers, its funding is stopped automatically. Funding should be phased out to give the playgroup time to try to get new placements, because it is not given that chance at present.


Playgroups in the five education and library boards are responsible for dealing with pre-school education. There have been difficulties in developing pre-school education. I have met with people in the different sectors to discuss their experiences of transition. It must be remembered that this school year of 2001-02 has 85% provision. There has been an extraordinarily rapid move forward in the past number of years, given the circumstances. From the Department’s point of view, flexibility must be provided, and we are prepared to do that. We are prepared to look at different interest groups’ concerns, and, in consultation with the boards and the pre-school education advisory groups, to ensure that everyone gets a fair crack of the whip.


If everyone should get a fair crack of the whip, why do pre-school playgroups which fulfil the criteria, such as the cross-community playgroup in Kircubbin, not receive support or funding?


The mention of Kircubbin is music to Mr McCarthy’s ears. I recently met a delegation involved in pre-school education in Kircubbin. Mr McCarthy accompanied that delegation. We are trying to resolve the difficulties. It is hoped that that will be achieved in due course.

Brytenwalda Tradition

8. asked the Minister of Education if he will ensure the right of children and young people to be taught the history of the Cruthin Kings of Ulster and the British Imperium of Óengus, King of the Picts, in the tradition of the Brytenwalda.
(AQO 258/01)


The statutory curriculum is not designed to take up 100% of teaching time. Schools are free to teach additional topics as they wish. That allows them to teach other topics considered important in meeting pupils’ needs. The programme of study for history makes specific allowance for schools to focus on topics of their own choosing. The Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) is currently undertaking a review of the curriculum, including history. At this stage, it would not be appropriate for me to suggest to the council how any particular issue should be covered in the revised curriculum.


I asked the question because the Minister is descended from the ancient Cruthin kings of Ulster, as are Alban Maginness, Ken Maginnis and some of the finest DUP supporters in the Kilkeel area. Can the Minister ensure that the shared inheritance of Ulster and Ireland is given due prominence in the curriculum in future?


Many Members on the Benches opposite will be pleased to hear that I am descended from royal blood. That is an interesting analysis. History is an important issue and is something in which Dr Adamson takes a keen interest. The curriculum review provides an opportunity for the CCEA to look at all the different interest areas that Members, or others, may have. Several people have suggested areas of history that should be studied. The Member named but one — there are many others that people believe should be included in the curriculum. I have advised them to put their cases to the CCEA, which will examine them. It is hoped that, as a result of its deliberations, everyone will be given an adequate opportunity to learn, and appreciate, our combined history.


Question 9 is in the name of Mr McElduff, but he is not in his place.

Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA)

10. asked the Minister of Education what costs are associated with the scrutinies carried out by both the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority and the Education and Training Inspectorate on the regulatory functions of CCEA.
(AQO 273/01)


In a typical year, the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority conducts three or four scrutinies of specific subjects at an estimated cost of £5,500 per subject per year. The cost of inspection activity and other Education and Training Inspectorate involvement with CCEA is not calculated separately; however, the cost of the inspectorate’s current three-year survey of the CCEA procedures associated with a sample of four GCE A level subjects will be approximately £50,000.


Unfortunately, time is up, so Mr Kennedy will not be able to ask his supplementary question.

Health, Social Services and Public Safety
Transport Services

1. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what plans she has to involve the private sector in providing transport services for patients travelling from hospital to home.
(AQO 256/01)


Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Tá socruithe ag iontaobhais leis an tSeirbhís Otharchairr na hothair sin a iompar a mheastar a bheith neamhábalta de réir míochaine a gcuid socruithe féin a dhéanamh le taisteal abhaile ón ospidéal. Tá cuid de na hiontaobhais i ndiaidh socruithe breise a dhéanamh trí úsáid a bhaint as tiománaithe deonacha, as gnólachtaí príobháideacha tacsaí agus as seirbhísí príobháideacha otharchairr.
Trusts have arrangements with the Ambulance Service to provide transport for those patients considered medically unfit to make their own arrangements to travel home from hospital. Some trusts have supplemented those arrangements with the use of voluntary drivers, private taxi firms and private ambulance services.
I am, however, concerned that fully equipped accident and emergency ambulances are used for general transport. That is not an efficient use of those vehicles, and the private sector may well have a greater role to play than at present.


In April 2001 the journey of one of my constituents from Belvoir Park Hospital to Portstewart lasted five hours. This month a patient was to travel from Coleraine Hospital to a nursing home in Portstewart. An ambulance was called at 11.00 am, and the lady was told to be ready at 1.00 pm. The ambulance eventually arrived at 5.00 pm, so that lady waited all day to travel four miles. I should have thought that in urgent cases, when people are extremely ill, an ambulance was a necessity, but in a simple case where an elderly person is leaving —


Order. I must ask the Member to come to her question.


I am getting there, Mr Speaker. I am just slower than the rest of them.


Order. One thing that the Member is not is slow. This is an opportunity for questions to the Minister of Health, not for case notes. They are for the Health Service. Please ask your question.


Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister consider that if we did perhaps use the private sector, it could be money well spent? The Minister has already told the Health Committee that a modest saving could be made in the trusts and boards. Does the Minister agree that if we make a number of modest savings, we could end up with a major saving?


I invited the Member to write to me in April, and I reiterate that invitation today with regard to those questions. I am very aware that, due to the pressure on the system, some patients face unacceptable delays in receiving ambulance transport home. In some trusts, therefore, supplementary arrangements are being made with voluntary car drivers, private taxi firms or private ambulance services to ensure that such delays are kept to a minimum.
With regard to the financing of that, trusts need to ensure that their arrangements for the provision of services reflect efficient and cost-effective use of limited resources. That could involve the private sector where appropriate. The type of transport given on the day clearly depends on the clinical condition of the patient, and that information is normally communicated to the ambulance service by the clinician making the request for transport.
I have spoken on several occasions about the restructuring of health and personal social services. Members know that the Executive are looking at public administration. However, I warn people that these moves, when they come about, will not solve the problems of health and social services, which have been underfunded for many years.


What progress, if any, has been made in securing the provision of an air ambulance?


The cross-border pre-hospital emergency care working group is considering the case for an air ambulance service to cover the whole island. The group will review the location options for it. Those options include an air ambulance that would operate on a North/South basis with costs shared between Belfast and Dublin. The group is commissioning independent advice on the costs and benefits of such a service.


Question 2, in the name of Mr Dallat, has been withdrawn.

Homefirst Community Trust

3. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to make a statement on the current financial situation of Homefirst Community Trust.
(AQO 269/01)


8. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to explain the variation in funding and the levels of services provided by different health and social services trusts.
(AQO 275/01)


Le do chead, a Cheann Comhairle, glacfaidh mé ceisteanna 3 agus 8 le chéile mar go bpléann siad le hábhair atá cosúil le chéile.
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 3 and 8 together.
Maidir leis an staid airgeadais reatha in Iontaobhas Pobail Homefirst SSS, dar leis an iontaobhas faoi láthair go bhféadfadh sé tarlú go mbeadh róchaiteachas de £1·6 milliún a bheith aige. Chuir an t-iontaobhas plean teagmhasach faoi bhráid na Roinne ina raibh réimse roghanna faoi conas aghaidh a thabhairt ar an easnamh a d’fhéadfadh a bheith ann.
Maidir leis an dara ceist, tá roinnt cúiseanna ann a mbeadh difir ann i maoiniú agus i leibhéil seirbhíse ar fud iontaobhas. Is iad na príomhfhactóirí is cúis leis sin ná aois agus méid na ndaonraí a bhfuil siad ag freastal orthu agus leibhéal coibhneasta riachtanais sna daonraí sin.
Homefirst Community Trust projects a potential overspend of £1·6 million. The trust has submitted a contingency plan to the Department that outlines options to address the potential deficit.
There are several reasons for the difference in funding and service levels across trusts. The key factors that contribute to that are the size and age of the populations they serve and the relative level of need in those populations. The elderly, for example, make more intensive use of care facilities than the rest of the population. It is also accepted that levels of morbidity and need are higher in deprived areas. The profile of local services is sensitive to those issues, and the demand for acute hospital services has also shown a dramatic increase in recent years, which has created particular problems for those trusts that provide such services.


It is clear that a deficit of £1·6 million is significant for a community trust. Can the Minister estimate the costs that are currently incurred by acute hospital trusts because of problems such as bed blocking? Many other problems can occur; for example, in the field of psychiatry, the simple failure to provide community services when problems become more acute and must be dealt with by inpatient services is resulting in greater costs than there would be if the problems were dealt with by community-based teams. Homefirst Community Trust appears to be having to remove post-operative community staff. Is the Minister not concerned that, once again, the acute hospitals are wagging the entire departmental dog?


I do not agree with the suggestion that acute hospitals are wagging either a departmental dog or an entire service dog. They are part and parcel of an integrated service. I have stated in the past that all community services are important, and the Member will know that a community care review of services for the elderly is in the early stages of examining the impact of delayed discharge.
In recognition of the impact that that will have, I provided several million pounds in August for services in the community. On the difficulties that acute hospitals and health trusts are facing, 12 trusts have prepared contingency plans to address their deficits.
I have stated time and again, here and elsewhere, that the current financial position is based on a history of the failure of resources to keep pace with demand. I am therefore trying to secure additional funding for health and personal social services for the coming years from the Minister of Finance and Personnel and from Executive Colleagues. The funding is needed to address the specific cost pressures that all trusts face in coping with the unprecedented demand on our health and social services. I know that Members will be debating that issue, among others, in the debate on the draft Budget proposals that the Executive have brought forward.


What role does the Department have in ensuring equity of provision of services to all areas? Does the Minister acknowledge that services for care in the community are grossly underfunded in the Homefirst Community Health and Social Services Trust area? Does she accept that, irrespective of the causes, she and her Department are ultimately responsible for ensuring that there is equality in the provision of community care services to all areas in Northern Ireland?


The Department monitors the performance of trusts against the targets set out in their service delivery plans, which are agreed annually with their main commissioners — the health and social services boards. The plans are subject to endorsement by my Department.
Boards are responsible for funding health trusts to meet the costs of the services that they provide. The Department encourages the boards to use its capitation formula to inform their allocations, and it has produced guidelines to assist them in that task. The Department does not insist that the boards mechanistically apply the formula. However, I want to ensure that the boards use the formula to inform their decisions on how that formula should operate at local level. Under the TSN agenda, I expect the process to be refined, and, over time, the boards will be expected to demonstrate that resources have been applied equitably.
I recognise that there is a need to increase funding in community services, particularly in the Northern Board area. However, the Department’s ability to address that issue is constrained by the overall level of resources available. I am aware that there have been ongoing discussions between Homefirst Community Health and Social Services Trust and the Northern Board on the levels of home-help provision and the resources available to the trust.

Acute Hospital Services Review

4. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety when she will make decisions in the light of the review of acute hospital services.
(AQO 274/01)


9. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to indicate the timescale for completion of the decision-making process in respect of the review of acute hospital services.
(AQO 264/01)


Le do chead, a Cheann Chomhairle, glacfaidh mé ceisteanna 4 agus 9 le chéile mar go mbaineann an dá cheann le todhchaí seirbhísí ospidéal géarchúraim.
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 4 and 9 together because they both relate to decisions about the future of acute hospital services.
Nuair a foilsíodh tuairisc an ghrúpa athbhreithnithe ar ghéarospidéil i mí an Mheithimh, d’eisigh mé an tuairisc le hagaidh tréimhse comhairliúcháin phoiblí a chríochnóidh ar 31 Deireadh Fómhair. I ndiaidh toradh an phróisis a mheas agus caibidil a dhéanamh le Comhghleacaithe ar an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin, is féidir moltaí ar an bhealach chun tosaigh a chur faoi chomhairliúchán. Tá súil agam bheith i riocht cinntí a fhógairt le linn 2002.
Following its publication in June, I issued the Acute Hospitals Review Group’s report for a period of public consultation that will end on 31 October.
After there has been consideration of the outcome, and discussion with Executive Colleagues, proposals on the way forward will be published for consultation. I hope to be in a position to announce decisions in 2002.


Does the Minister accept that the sustainability factor should be a core consideration in any review strategy for acute hospital services? Given that the Hayes review considered accessibility only, will the Minister assure us that sustainability will now feature strongly in the Department’s final deliberations on the future of acute services? Can she further assure us that the people of Tyrone will not be dealt a mortal health blow as a result of the Hayes review’s proposal for the Tyrone County Hospital? The hospital’s viability has been put in jeopardy. There seems to be a constant threat to its well-established and excellent range of medical and acute services, in particular its ear, nose and throat and renal dialysis departments and its associated supporting services, including its medical laboratory facilities.


Order. This is an opportunity to ask questions, not to make a speech about the undoubted benefits and qualities of Omagh. I think the Minister has heard the question.


Mr McElduff has put down a question regarding funding for the Tyrone County Hospital. The answer to that may well be of interest to Mr Byrne. The report that was issued for consultation contains far-reaching proposals that I will consider with Executive Colleagues. I issued the report for an initial pre-consultation period, to last until 31 October 2001, so that Members, the public, Health Service staff and those patients or prospective patients who will be affected by proposed changes can raise issues. At the end of that period I will examine the issues raised, including those that Members mention today and others that have been raised in letters to the Department.
However, I stress that no decisions have yet been taken or will be taken prior to consultation and that any proposed changes to the long-term future of our acute hospitals will be subject to an equality impact assessment.


I must reiterate one question that was asked by Mr Byrne, because the Minister has not answered it. Does the Minister agree that sustainability of hospital services is a key consideration in determining the future profile of acute hospital provision? Will she take that into account when considering the site for a new hospital for the rural west as part of a review of acute services in Northern Ireland? Furthermore, I note from an edition of ‘the Irish News’ of last week that pre-consultation meetings are to be held in Belfast this Thursday and in Londonderry on the 23 October. Can the Minister tell us when such pre-consultation exercises will be undertaken in the rural west?


I will contact the Member with details of any meetings that may take place in his area. Several factors were brought to my attention in the pre- consultation period and will be considered when we look at the overall picture. I stress that, at this point, the review is pre-consultation. Following discussion with Executive Colleagues and examination of any proposals for changes in the future, including the issues that the Member has mentioned, those proposals will be put out to consultation. All proposals will be subject to an equality impact assessment.


While we are awaiting the decision on the location of the new hospital in the rural west, will the Minister give an assurance that there will be no diminution of services in either the Tyrone County Hospital or the Erne Hospital? People in Tyrone County Hospital are fearful — and this has already been put to the Minister by a delegation — that someone is already implementing a report that is only consultative in nature but which is being interpreted as a final outcome. Can the Minister assure both hospitals that there will be no diminution of service in the meantime?


I can assure all those who have an interest in health and personal social services that I have made it clear that until more long-term decisions are made, I expect every effort to be made to maintain existing services. Where, for any reason, this proves impossible, any changes made must be the minimum necessary to ensure safety and quality, and must be temporary.


Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Hayes addresses the issue of sustainability very well — people from those areas should read the report. The Minister said that the decision would be taken in 2002. Will she agree with me that it is vital, as far as services and sustainability in those hospitals are concerned, that the date be sooner — as early as possible? Can the Minister say how early the decision could be made?


Mr McHugh is the third Member to raise the question of sustainability. I reiterate that I will be looking carefully at the recommendations in this area, along with other recommendations and matters brought to my attention. I will of course want to hear the views of everyone affected by the proposed changes, as well as those health professionals who deliver the services.
I have stated clearly that following discussions with Executive Colleagues I expect to be able to make decisions in 2002 and that we will have proposals brought forward for consultation. I want to resolve the uncertainty about the future of our hospitals as soon as possible. As the Member knows only too well, some factors are completely outside my control, and they may influence the timing of decisions on these important issues. For example, if the former First Minister goes ahead with withdrawing Ulster Unionist Ministers from the Executive, that may delay both the consideration of the initial public reaction to the recommendations in the review group’s report and also the planned public consultation on proposals for the way forward. The matter can only be discussed if there are Executive Colleagues. I cannot give people a guarantee, but I can explain my plans for the way forward. I am basing my timing on conditions that I have some control over.

Hospital Beds

5. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what percentage of hospital beds are allocated as intensive care beds.
(AQO 255/01)


Le linn na bliana 2000-2001 as an mheán de 8,600 leaba a bhí ar fáil gach lá, bhí thart ar 1% ainmnithe mar chinn dianchúraim. Is féidir cuid de na leapacha sin a athrú idir dianchúram agus ardspleáchas, ag brath ar an riachtanas.
During the year 2000-01, of the average of 8,600 beds available each day, some 1% were designated as intensive care. Depending on need, some of these beds are interchangeable between intensive care and high dependency.


I thank the Minister for her reply, though it is disappointing, bearing in mind some other statistics. In the USA, for example, around 10% of beds are designated for intensive care; Germany, I understand, has designated 5% of its beds, and the UK overall runs at around 3%. Can the Minister advise me of the current occupancy rate across Northern Ireland? Is it still above the recommended 70%? What steps have been taken and what progress has been made, if any, towards implementing the recommendations of the Chief Medical Officer’s report with regard to the number of intensive care beds in Northern Ireland?


In percentage terms, it is difficult to make direct comparisons. There are different systems in different places. We looked at the Chief Medical Officer’s recommendations, as well as the guidelines from the Clinical Resource Efficiency Support Team (CREST), and they suggest that between 1% and 2% of our acute beds should be provided for intensive care. Currently, the figure is approximately 1%.
I am committed to ensuring that all patients receive the treatment that they expect and deserve. That is why I asked the Chief Medical Officer to progress that review prior to the Assembly’s first suspension. Demand for intensive care continues to increase as a result of recent advances in medicine and surgery. The increased provision of intensive care and high dependency beds of the past year, together with the plans for future expansion, will contribute significantly to the care of very ill patients.
We have increased the number of beds available. Of the 26 recommendations in the Chief Medical Officer’s review of intensive care services, nine have been fully implemented and plans are in place to implement the remainder over the next three years. An extra 10 intensive care beds and 11 high dependency beds have been provided, and there are plans for a further expansion of high dependency provision.


Is the Minister aware that the lack of adequate numbers of intensive care beds has led to one of our top consultant surgeons leaving the Province? There was not enough work for consultants, due to a shortage of beds after surgery. Does the Minister recognise that many patients who require cancer treatment are taken into wards and starved the night before they are scheduled to have their operation, only to be told that the operation cannot take place because the intensive care bed that they require has already been taken? Does she further recognise that the extra beds that have been provided in the Royal Victoria Hospital will not meet those people’s needs?


It is inappropriate to suggest why a consultant might have left a position and moved elsewhere, unless that consultant expressed a reason. I am not aware of any such suggestion in this case.
I have looked at the availability of intensive care and high dependency provision, and I realise that there is work to be done. I explained that in my answer to the previous question. It should be realised that a considerable amount of high dependency and intensive care provision has already been brought into service, and there are plans for further expansion of high dependency provision.
I have been advised that most cancer patients requiring surgery do not need an intensive care bed. However, the increased provision of intensive care and high dependency beds that has already taken place, together with plans for expansion, will make a significant contribution to the care of very ill patients. Worthwhile work has been done. There are some shortcomings in intensive care provision which have an impact on services, and that highlights the need for further investment. Planning has been developed and further progress will be made.

Neo-Natal Screening

7. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to provide an update regarding neo-natal screening for deafness.
(AQO 283/01)


I ndiaidh measúnú ar na hiarratais ó iontaobhais, táthar ag súil go mbeidh Otharlann Ríoga Victoria ina láithreán píolótach do scagadh éisteachta nua-naíche anseo. Mar sin féin, braithfidh seo ar cé acu a riarfaidh sé ar na riachtanais bhreise a aithníodh le linn na cuairte leis an láithreán a mheasúnú.
When the trusts’ applications have been assessed, it is anticipated that the Royal Victoria Hospital will become the pilot site for neonatal hearing screening here. However, that is subject to its meeting the further requirements that were raised at the site assessment visit.


When will the pilot scheme start? It was, after all, supposed to start in June of this year. Deafness in between five and 10 babies may have gone undetected through their not being screened.


This was part of a wider pilot scheme. The main pilot scheme, which is based in England, is not due to commence until the end of this year. That is because of problems encountered with many of the applications with regard to the need to ensure uniformity, the adoption of protocols and the development of standards and appropriate information technology support. The pilot scheme in the Royal Victoria Hospital is scheduled to commence early next year, only a few months after the main pilot scheme.

Finance and Personnel
Publicity

1. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if he is apprised of all press cuttings that are kept by other Departments relating to public comments, statements and actions made by civil servants who also serve as elected representatives.
(AQO 261/01)


The Department of Finance and Personnel is not notified as a matter of routine of instances where the activities of members of staff have been reported in the press. Each Department is responsible for retaining such information as it deems necessary for the effective management of staff. The decision on whether particular information is relevant to an individual’s employment rests with that Department.


Can the Minister give an assurance that if civil servants who are elected representatives make statements that are reported in the media, these statements will not be used by their superiors in the Civil Service to discriminate against them?


All civil servants are bound by rules of conduct and behaviour in and outside the workplace. A Department may grant an individual permission to participate in political activity, but such permission is subject to a code of discretion. It is for the employing Department to determine whether there has been a breach of the rules and to take appropriate action in the light of all the circumstances and with regard to civil service policies on harassment, bullying and equal opportunities.

Government Purchasing Agency

2. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give his assessment of the performance targets set for the Government Purchasing Agency for 2001-02.
(AQO 263/01)


The targets that I set for the Government Purchasing Agency for 2001-02 and that I announced to the Assembly in July are designed to demonstrate to the agency’s customers and to other stakeholders how their needs and expectations are being met by the agency. They cover two main areas: the efficiency of the agency itself and the benefit that it brings to customers. They fall under four headings: finance, output, quality and efficiency. These targets are demanding but achievable; achieving them will ultimately benefit the taxpayer.


I thank the Minister for outlining those categories. Why are there no references to equality objectives in the performance targets that he has set for the Government Purchasing Agency?


I have already listed the areas covered by the performance targets. The agency is a key entity as far as Government procurement policy is concerned. It is in the context of the review of public procurement, which is now the subject of consultation, that we considered equality and targeting social need. The procurement review will consider Government procurement and matters covered by the work of the Government Purchasing Agency.

PFI/PPP Projects

3. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline the criteria upon which PFI/PPP projects will be considered.
(AQO 280/01)

PPP Working Group

6. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if the PPP working group forum will be encouraged to take submissions from those groups/ agencies that have an interest in this subject.
(AQO 281/01)


With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 3 and 6 together. The key criteria used to judge whether a project should be taken forward through PPP include whether there is a reasonable prospect of obtaining an outcome which would give value for money and be viable and affordable. This is tested through the completion of an outline business case before a project is approved for PPP procurement.
The answer to the second question is "Yes". The PPP working group is inviting views and opinions through public consultation, and I encourage all those interested to make written submissions to the joint secretariat.


Will the PPP review group consider the possibility of involving the community and voluntary sectors in the provision of PPP solutions?


I thank Mr McMenamin for that suggestion. The working group established to review the use of PPP to address our infrastructure deficit and service needs as part of the Executive’s commitment in the Programme for Government includes representatives from the community and voluntary sectors. We will also consider all feasible partnership arrangements. The work of the review is not confined to looking at private finance initiatives or public-private partnerships. Where feasible it will also include multi-sectoral partnerships.


Will the Minister assure us that every attempt will be made to ensure that public-sector employees affected by any PPP will be treated fairly, with comparable terms and conditions of employment?


I can assure Ms Lewsley that in all PPP projects which involve transfers of employees from the public to the private sector their terms and conditions of employment will be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 1981. In accordance with Treasury guidance, comparable pensions provision will be made.


Question 4 has been withdrawn. Question 5 is in the name of Mr McNamee, but I do not see him in his place. Question 7 has been withdrawn.

Government Departments (Absenteeism)

8. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what assessment he has made of the current level of absenteeism within each Government Department and what action has been taken to encourage improvements.
(AQO 276/01)


Each Government Department closely monitors its level of absenteeism. Mr Beggs will already be aware from my previous written answer of the average levels of absenteeism in each of the Northern Ireland Civil Service Departments during 2000-01. The different levels of absenteeism in Departments reflect, among other things, varying age, grade and gender profiles. Work undertaken by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) has provided Departments with a comprehensive overview of their sick-leave absences and a sound baseline to enable them to identify underlying trends and causes and to enable more in-depth analysis and targeting of problem areas. Departments are taking action to reduce their levels of absenteeism.


Does the Minister accept that there is a huge variation in absenteeism, from 4·4% to 8·4%? Does he acknowledge that this can be a result of local management or of the stress levels of the workers involved? What assessment has he made of the underfunding in the social care services that may have contributed to the high levels of absenteeism in that area?


There is a significant range in the absenteeism figures. I have said that some of those differences are related to the different age, gender and grade profiles in Departments. NISRA has been helping Departments to identify underlying trends and causes. Each Department must address its own cultural problems. I have no indication of serious problems of lack of care in any one Department. The point of these statistics is to identify any problems that exist. That task falls to individual Departments as well as to the central personnel group.


Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Can the Minister tell us whether these levels of absenteeism compare well with other sectors, such as the private sector? Are they partly caused by the extra pressure of questions from Members of the Assembly?


I thank the Member for his confession. Comparisons of absenteeism levels can be made. Unfortunate comparisons have been made between the absenteeism levels in the Civil Service and those indicated in a postal survey carried out by the Confederation of British Industry (CBI). I caution that the figures in the CBI report do not provide a meaningful comparison, as they deal with absenteeism across the United Kingdom in a range of private sector organisations of very different sizes, and are calculated on a different basis. They do not allow for the sort of factors that are taken account of in our figures.
All Members are aware that different Departments have seen an increase in their workload, and that working pressures have been added to as a result of the greater accountability that the Assembly and other institutions afford. However, I do not believe that those pressures are expressing themselves in absenteeism levels.

Barnett Formula

9. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if he has entered into consultation with HM Treasury to secure additional resources, and whether he will ensure that discussions on the Barnett formula reflect the needs of our society.
(AQO 284/01)


Earlier this year, the then First Minister and the Deputy First Minister met with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to discuss a range of issues, including the operation of the Barnett formula. Senior officials in the Department of Finance and Personnel have also had a series of meetings with Treasury officials to discuss Northern Ireland’s funding allocations as determined by the Barnett formula. The 2002 spending review sets the context for negotiations on the Barnett formula with the Treasury.


Does the Minister agree that the Barnett formula is not widely understood, and that Northern Ireland is distinctly disadvantaged by it? Resources for our health, education, roads infrastructure and other public services are inhibited by the Barnett formula. We need to renegotiate it, and our local Ministers need to display the type of flair, creativity and imagination that will allow them to use resources to the utmost effect.


I am happy to agree with the Member that the nature and detail of the Barnett formula are not widely understood. Since devolution, people have become very familiar with the term, and the need for it to change has been a constant refrain in this Chamber. We also need to recognise that while we have one particular view of the effects of the Barnett formula on ourselves and how those effects can be compounded over time, other areas do not see its impact and our needs in the same way. We need to recognise that there are other regional views and there are other questions for us to face in regard to the spending levels of some of our programmes.
While we can argue that some key programmes, such as health, are being increasingly jeopardised by the Barnett formula, others can point to spending programmes where we are continuing to spend at a rate considerably higher than the UK average. That raises issues for us concerning the prioritisation of, and within, spending programmes.
I agree with the Member that we cannot always be looking for more money from the Barnett formula or from some other funding formula. We must do more with the money we have. We must provide the essential services needed by the most efficient and effective means possible, and thereby release valuable resources to develop other services.

Health Service

10. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give his assessment regarding the potential release of moneys from departmental budgets to alleviate the crisis in the Health Service.
(AQO 296/01)


Ministers will consider the views of Assembly Members, Committees and others in respect of proposals for modifying the draft Budget for 2002-03, in accordance with the timetable set out in the document I presented to the Assembly on 25 September. The Executive will shortly consider the scope for reallocating resources for 2001-02 in the monitoring round, and that will include consideration of Health Service funding issues.


I thank the Minister for his reply, although I am surprised by it. He is aware that I have attempted to table questions to individual Ministers regarding the possible release of moneys from their respective budgets, only to find that those questions were kicked into touch through being referred to him. Is this a case of passing the buck? Is someone afraid to grasp the nettle?


The Member has asked Ministerial Colleagues a series of questions. He asked several Ministers if they would be prepared to release £10 million from their departmental budgets next year to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety’s budget. The questions were referred to me because they are common to the Budget; they are not specific to any individual Department. The questions are relatively speculative.
In the Budget deliberations, the Executive set out to achieve more room to manoeuvre than the Executive’s position report indicated that we had. We examined several options and tested several issues including uniform cuts in resource budgets across Departments; uniform curbs on departmental running costs; and an examination of other means to release more assets. Departments made clear the difficulties they would have if they were to get a smaller allocation than last year’s indicative allocations had suggested.
The Executive recognise that there are very real pressures on all Departments. However, we also recognise that there are very acute pressures on Health Service spending, and that is one of the reasons why in this draft Budget the allocation for the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety has increased significantly above the indicative allocation that was announced last December for 2002-03. The Executive have tried to address the particular pressures within the Health Service.
The Member will appreciate that the Executive had the benefit of the report from the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the Executive position report, which reflected the views of the various departmental Committees. There was no suggestion in the various departmental contributions that any of them could do with less money. On the contrary, representatives underlined the needs and pressures of their own Departments.


It is not only the release of moneys that is needed to alleviate the crisis in the Health Service. Does the Minister agree that his Department must also monitor the spending on health board offices, such as those of the Ulster Community and Hospital HSS Trust, to ensure that money is spent cost-effectively?


Funding levels do not determine the full value that can be obtained, through services, out of public expenditure. As I have previously said, we must not only ensure that we have bids and ambitions for services; we must also have sound plans. Those plans need to be implemented efficiently and effectively.
It falls to Departments to manage the more precise allocations beyond the general headings that are presented in the Budget. It also falls to those Departments to monitor the performance and effectiveness of the public bodies and other entities that are used to deliver departmental services and programmes.


Given the crisis in the Health Service, what consideration has been given to reallocating funds which have been put into the Executive programme funds but which have not yet been placed in any destination?


The Executive programme funds are an important device created by the Executive, in the context of devolution, to try to drive a wedge between the patterns of spending that we inherited and the patterns that we need to create under devolution to reflect our distinctive priorities. There has already been one significant tranche of allocations from Executive programme funds and there will be another one soon.
Members will be aware that some advance commitments have been made to cover, for instance, the gas pipelines and the commitment to expenditure on roads that was reflected in the Programme for Government.
In looking at further allocations from Executive programme funds, the Executive are well aware of some of the pressures that are facing particular services, not least the Health Service. We have already allocated significant funds from Executive programme funds — including the infrastructure and capital renewal fund — to the Health Service. There is no reason to believe that the Department, with its service pressures, will not be in a position to usefully bid for allocations from Executive programme funds in the future.

Peace II Programme

11. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give an update on the Peace II programme.
(AQO 278/01)


The Peace II programme is a complex programme, under which a range of detailed stages had to be completed before calls for projects could be made. Those stages have now been completed or are nearing completion. Intermediary funding bodies have been appointed as implementing bodies under the programme, Departments are finalising arrangements for the measures for which they are responsible, and the detailed work of establishing new local strategy partnerships is nearing a conclusion.
Calls for projects will be issued over the coming weeks for some of the main aspects of the Peace II programme, with grants likely to be awarded from December or January onwards. As funding bodies call for projects, the application forms, and guidance on how to apply, will be available from the Department of Finance and Personnel and the Special EU Programmes Body web site.
The extension to the gap funding arrangements that I announced recently will ensure that funding continues for projects until the formal application and selection processes have been completed.


I thank the Minister for his answer. Can he confirm that the recent gap funding announcement will enable front-line community groups to carry on their vital work? Does the Minister agree that that would not have happened under the direct rule status to which some parties here would have us return?


The recent announcement that extends the current round of gap funding should go a long way to ensuring that funding for projects continues until the formal application and selection processes for Peace II have been completed. In this context, I agree that the relatively ready access of community and voluntary groups to Ministers in the devolved Administration has allowed concerns to be voiced directly to Colleagues and me. In turn, this has meant that we in the Departments have been able to take these considerations into account when planning and managing European structural funds and wider public expenditure issues.


I listened with great interest to that answer, particularly with regard to the gap funding arrangements, which will allow continuity to enable existing projects to enter into the next phase. In general that is to be welcomed.
Is the Minister confident that the Peace II programme will successfully address the difficulties we encountered in securing applications from the rural Protestant community? Will it redress the imbalance of the previous programme that was admitted to in the House by his party Colleague and present Acting Deputy First Minister?


The arrangements for Peace II have involved extensive and elaborate consultation and monitoring exercises as well as evaluations of Peace I. We learnt lessons from Peace I about measures, schemes and models that worked, but we also recognise that more has to be done in the targeting of some areas.
The point that the Member refers to was supposed to be the subject of some significant admission by Séamus Mallon, which was reflected in an interim report a couple of years ago by Northern Ireland’s three MEPs who recognised that there was an imbalance. In that letter they also stated that there was no question of discrimination, that it was to do with patterns of application rather than with any skewing of allocations.
Horizontal principles will apply in the next programme. They include strong consideration of equality and balanced intervention. The horizontal principle is one in which all Government Departments have a conscientious interest, as does the European Commission. That interest has been reflected by the three monitoring committees of the Peace II operational programme for building sustainable prosperity and the community support framework monitoring committee. That interest will be followed through in all the work that is being carried out with respect to Peace II.


I looked forward to this Question Time — it is the hottest ticket in town. It has all been side- splitting stuff up to now, and maybe my question will be no different. However, I am being facetious.
Returning to the serious matter of the Peace II funding packages, does the Minister accept that the process to date has been painfully slow and that many community groups are at the end of their tether waiting for the situation to be sorted out? We have heard promise after promise that this would be dealt with, and each time the Minister has been asked about it on the Floor of the House we have been told that it would happen tomorrow. Tomorrow never seems to come. Now that we have reached the end of the tunnel, can the Minister give us a categorical assurance that every effort will be made to hasten the entire process? Will he devote his efforts, and those of his officials, to making sure that he can deliver on time, as many groups are suffering greatly as a result of the delays that his Department has overseen?


First of all, I refute any suggestion that my Department has been responsible for delays. Bringing the Peace II programme to land has been slow and painful. However, we have to remember that the community support framework is a document of the European Commission, and that was only agreed to last December. The Department was unable to move on the operational programmes and the programme complements until the Commission had delivered the community support framework. Following agreement on the operational programmes, the Department moved to agree the programme complements. Those were signed in March, meeting EU regulations.
The Department of Finance and Personnel and other Departments have worked to ensure that the targets and timetable requirements of EU legislation were met. The Department has also set up monitoring committees that are more effective and meaningful for this round of community support framework money than was the case in the last round. Parties in the House are represented on those monitoring committees, as are a range of other interests. Everyone involved in the exercises is aware of the quality and intensity of the effort that has been expended by my officials. The Department is now determined to follow through quickly for Peace II money. The Department has not been able to achieve that as early as it would have liked, and is, therefore, making further arrangements for gap funding. The Department has now moved forward with other aspects of Peace II. Some calls for projects are now taking place, and more will follow. The Department is moving with all possible speed.
Adjourned at 4.01 pm.

Education

Holy Cross Primary School

Mr Gerry Kelly: 1. asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to protect and vindicate the rights of children and parents travelling to and from Holy Cross Primary School.
(AQO 295/01)

Mr Alex Maskey: 14. asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to bring an end to the daily attacks on the schoolchildren of Holy Cross Primary School.
(AQO 294/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: A Cheann Comhairle, with your permission, I will take questions 1 and 14 together as they both relate to Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School in north Belfast.
I am concerned about disruption and attacks on pupils at any school. I am therefore concerned about the situation surrounding Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and the disruption and anxiety caused to teachers, pupils and parents. All parents have the right to escort their children to school free from impediment, and children have the right to be educated in a safe and secure environment that is conducive to learning.
The protest is unacceptable and must end immediately. The Department of Education will continue to support the board of governors, the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) and the Belfast Education and Library Board in their efforts to ensure that that is achieved for the pupils attending Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and the nearby controlled school, Wheatfield Primary. Departmental officials are in regular contact with the relevant education authorities and are monitoring the situation closely.
Additional support has been provided to Holy Cross Girls’ Primary School and, along with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board, the Department is considering what further assistance may be required by the two schools. In addition, the Executive have established an interdepartmental liaison group of officials and have appointed a senior liaison officer who works from an office in north Belfast that is accessible to all sections of the community. That group has been established to provide regular reports to the Executive on the situation, and the Department of Education is represented on that group at a senior level.
While the Department of Education, along with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board, is providing that support, the situation at Holy Cross Primary School can be resolved only by dialogue between the local communities. I have repeatedly urged local representatives to come together to resolve their issues.

Mr Gerry Kelly: Will the Minister tell the House what support has been put in place for the Holy Cross Primary School teachers and pupils?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Additional staffing has been provided to Holy Cross Primary School, and further support for both schools is under consideration by the Department of Education in conjunction with the CCMS and the Belfast Education and Library Board. Funding and approval for two exceptional closure days was given to support the residential course for the teaching staff, and that was used to assist them in dealing with trauma.

Mr Alex Maskey: I thank the Minister for his response so far. Notwithstanding the present review of post- primary provision — which, it is hoped, will bring an end to the transfer test — will the Minister be able to do anything to ensure that the children of Holy Cross Primary School will not be disadvantaged by their present trauma while sitting the transfer test?

Mr Martin McGuinness: It is vital that pupils sitting the transfer test can prepare properly and are able to sit the test in a stress-free environment. It is hoped that the protest will have ended by 9 November, the date of the first test. Funding has been agreed to enable the teachers to provide additional curriculum support to pupils at Holy Cross who are taking the transfer test this year. The Department has also been in touch with the school authorities, who will take appropriate steps to ensure that the children can take the transfer test in a calm and orderly atmosphere. The Department and the statutory education authorities will do all that they can to help the school achieve that.

Mr Billy Hutchinson: Has the Minister implemented any initiatives in other schools, particularly the Belfast Model School for Girls, the Belfast Boys’ Model School, Castle High School, Glengormley High School and Newtownabbey Community High School, all of which have been attacked in the past few weeks? I spoke to officials from Translink today, and there have been somewhere in the region of 146 attacks since 3 September. Are any initiatives being implemented to ensure that Protestant children can travel to and from school without attack? Are teachers being given advice on how to help with that?

Mr Martin McGuinness: My feelings on the situation in the north Belfast area have been made abundantly clear during this period, which has been so detrimental to the pupils, their parents and society.
Attacks on school buses are absolutely despicable and deplorable, and the Department keeps all of this under constant review. Recently I have issued countless statements calling on all those responsible for the attack and intimidation of schoolchildren to bring their activities to an end. Community and political representatives have a huge responsibility to state their opposition to the ongoing abuse of children. It does not matter which section of society, school, or school bus is involved; attacks, intimidation, threats, and abuse of children are totally unacceptable.
The Assembly has an important role to play. Several Assembly Members have recently made positive efforts to encourage dialogue within the community to have this resolved. I commend them for their initiative. They must be supported by Members from other political parties. There is a responsibility on everyone in the House to ensure that we play as constructive a role as possible. We can make it perfectly clear to everyone that it is unacceptable to attack children and that it should end immediately.

Mr Alban Maginness: I welcome the Minister’s reaffirmation of the right of parents to bring their children to school safely. Fr Troy, the chairman of the school board of governors, has suggested that parents may choose to bring their children to school by car or bus given the current onset of inclement weather. At the same time, they can maintain the right or the option to walk their children to school. What is the Minister’s reaction to that suggestion?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Fr Troy and Anne Tanney, the principal of the Holy Cross Girl’s School, have played heroic roles in the defence of children and their right to education. I salute their leadership and the way in which they have managed a difficult situation.
The right of access to all schools must be maintained; it is vital that people have right of access. However, it is for parents to decide how their children get to school. Parents will have my fullest support whatever their decision. That is the only basis on which we can proceed. People have the right to bring their children to school; they have a right to decide what transport they will use.

Human Rights in Schools

Mr Mick Murphy: 2. asked the Minister of Education to detail what he intends to do to raise awareness of human rights issues in schools.
(AQO 291/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: It is vital that there be greater awareness of human rights issues throughout the education system, particularly in schools. Human rights and equality are central tenets of the Good Friday Agreement. As part of the process to raise awareness of human rights, the Department recently held a conference on human rights in education, at which I announced several specific initiatives.
First, the Department is funding the appointment of an advisory teacher for a period of two years, who will be based in the Children’s Law Centre. This person will develop human rights information and learning materials. Secondly, I have given my approval to the appointment of five teachers who, working in conjunction with the Human Rights Commission, will assist in raising awareness of human rights issues in post-primary schools, including the consultation on the recently launched proposed bill of rights.
The curriculum also has an important role to play in raising awareness of human rights issues. Members may be aware of the work being carried out by Prof Alan Smith and Mr Michael Arlow of the University of Ulster. That pilot project in a citizenship curriculum is firmly based on human rights values.
My Department and I will continue to work in partnership with the Human Rights Commission and those in the education sector to ensure that human rights issues remain high on the educational agenda.

Mr Mick Murphy: When will those five teachers be in post?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Recruitment will start shortly, and the teachers will be in post as soon as is practicable.

Mr Danny Kennedy: Are they new posts? How much will they cost? Under which heading will they be funded? How can the Minister justify the posts when schools are making redundancies and are struggling to provide the core curriculum because their level of funding is not high enough?

Mr Martin McGuinness: There is indeed pressure on schools and on the education budget. However, the issue of human rights is important. Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement there is a responsibility on all Departments to co-operate with the Human Rights Commission. I have held several meetings with the commission, and I appreciate the important role it plays.
I do not have the details regarding funding for the posts. However, I will write to the Member with that information as soon as I can.

Common Funding Formula for Grant-Aided Schools

Mr Tommy Gallagher: 3. asked the Minister of Education to detail the timescale for the implementation of a new common funding formula for grant-aided schools.
(AQO 287/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: I announced on 4 October that implementation of the common funding formula will be postponed until April 2003. The consultation on the Department of Education’s proposals ended on 21 September. The decision to postpone allows more time to consider in detail the responses to the consultation, to prepare legislation, and to complete the necessary groundwork and practical arrangements for the implementation of the formula.

Mr Tommy Gallagher: Does the Minister accept that the use of the words "gainers" and "losers" to describe schools in his Department’s consultation document is a cause of disquiet for teachers and governors? Does he agree that the use of such terms, given that they smack of market forces, should have no place in the vocabulary of any educationalist? Given the extended timescale he has announced, the common funding formula should concentrate on the delivery of equal support to all children in all schools.

Mr Martin McGuinness: I was not aware that the use of those words had created problems. I have not received any critical responses. Since the Member has raised the issue, the Department must consider those views. The rationale behind the common funding formula is to bring about a fairer and more equitable education system. Much work remains to be done regarding further consideration of the consultation document and the legislation that will be brought before the House. When the work is completed, the common funding formula will benefit all schools.

Mr Jim Shannon: Many people are concerned about the common funding formula. There are children in TSN areas who are disadvantaged because of the current funding formula, which is linked to the uptake of free school meals. What steps is the Minister taking to address that issue?

Mr Martin McGuinness: TSN is an important element of the common funding formula. A 10% increase, from £40 million to £44 million, has been proposed. My Department is concerned about the issue.
Great efforts are being made to ensure that TSN is aimed at areas of social need and needy pupils. We are also dealing with important educational indicators in an endeavour to ensure that we are dealing with all pupils who are experiencing difficulties.
The House needs to be reminded that we are working hard with the continuing school support programme and the issue of group 1 schools. It will be understood that a comprehensive view is being taken of this situation and TSN. New TSN will give funds to children with educational needs, and that will enhance our education system and allow us to continue monitoring the situation so that support is directed to pupils who need it.

Mainstream Education

Ms Sue Ramsey: 4. asked the Minister of Education what action will be taken to ensure that all young people have a right to mainstream education.
(AQO 293/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: All children have a right to education, and there is a presumption that that will be provided in a mainstream school. Education and library boards have a duty to ensure that there are sufficient places in their respective areas to meet potential demand.

Ms Sue Ramsey: What is being done specifically about bullying in schools and pupils who are afraid to attend?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Every school is required to have a written discipline policy which must promote self- discipline, good behaviour and respect for others among pupils. Bullying behaviour is unacceptable and should be addressed by schools as part of their existing discipline policies. Many schools have voluntarily developed a separate anti-bullying policy. I intend to strengthen that by taking the next legislative opportunity to make it a mandatory requirement for every school to have and to implement an anti-bullying policy. My Department recently issued guidance to schools on promoting positive behaviour, and that contained advice on addressing bullying.

Post-Primary Schools (First Preference Applications)

Mr David Ford: 5. asked the Minister of Education to detail the number of first preference applications and the number of children admitted to each post-primary school in September 2001.
(AQO 252/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: The information requested for September 2001 is not available at present. The information for September 2000 is, however, available. This is extensive, and I have placed a copy of the data in the Assembly Library. When the data for September 2001 becomes available I will supply it to the Assembly Library; I will also provide the Member with a personal copy.

Mr David Ford: I thank the Minister for his response. As this was originally tabled as a question for written answer, I did not expect full details. That would take the entire 30 minutes. Can the Minister, therefore, confirm that integrated schools are, and remain, significantly oversubscribed compared to mainstream controlled and maintained schools? Will he inform the Assembly what action he is taking in the field of transformation to meet this great need?

Mr Martin McGuinness: First, I congratulate the Member on becoming leader of the Alliance Party and wish him well in the future.
Of the 17 integrated post-primary schools, 11 were oversubscribed and 6 undersubscribed. My Department will normally consider any development proposals put forward to increase integrated provision. I intend shortly to announce a change in the viability criteria for post- primary schools.

Mr Tom Hamilton: What is the average percentage of children admitted annually to grammar schools on the basis of first preference after the transfer test at 11, who subsequently pass GCSEs in five or more subjects at grade C or above?

Mr Martin McGuinness: I do not have that information to hand but will write to the Member.

Dyslexic Children

Mr Conor Murphy: 6. asked the Minister of Education what support he intends to give to the primary movement programme for dyslexic children.
(AQO 290/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: It is essential that innovative research findings be evaluated properly in order to assess their usefulness to the local education system. Two education and library boards have trained teachers in primary movement, and, in conjunction with my Department’s inspectorate, they intend to carry out an evaluation of the method’s effectiveness on children with dyslexia. The findings of the evaluation will be made generally available.

Mr Conor Murphy: I note that progress on this issue will be made in the future. In the meantime, what is being done in schools to target children with dyslexia?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Provision for children with special educational needs is the statutory responsibility of the education and library boards. It depends on the assessment made, and provision indicated, in each child’s statement of special education needs. However, not all children with dyslexia will have such statements. The provision for children with dyslexia is broadly similar across all five boards. Most provision can be made in-school with supportive organisation and planning. Sometimes outside assistance is given by an education and library board reading centre or by peripatetic, or outreach, literacy support. That assistance may include advice or in-service training for the class teacher and the school’s special needs co-ordinator.
Statements are made on some children whose learning difficulties are particularly severe. In such cases the additional tuition is extended, and information technology equipment may be provided.

Playgroups (Funding)

Mr Roy Beggs: 7. asked the Minister of Education if his policy of refusing funding to playgroups with less than eight children in the immediate pre-school year has been subjected to rural proofing.
(AQO 277/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: In formulating their pre-school education development plans, pre-school education advisory groups are required by the Department to give particular regard to the needs of rural areas, where existing levels of provision tend to be lowest. However, the minimum group size requirement is one of the key features of the programme. It is designed to promote high-quality pre-school provision that has been applied consistently to all settings regardless of location. The pre-school programme involves an investment of £38 million over a four-year period.

Mr Roy Beggs: The educational training inspector set the minimum number of children at eight. Given the effect of this number on the rural community, and on the service delivered by the health and social services, were other Departments’ views taken into account in setting that number? How does the policy target social need when playgroups which have been assessed by the educational inspectorate as being of high quality face potential closure for failing to have the magic number of eight children?

Mr Martin McGuinness: The expansion programme is designed to promote the personal, social and emotional development of children. In order to facilitate this development it is important that children learn and play in a group of reasonable size. We must all be aware that voluntary and private centres in some areas are concerned about possible displacement. Officials continue to monitor the situation. The Department holds regular discussions with officers of the relevant pre-school education advisory group on specific cases where concerns have been expressed. However, the Department is not aware of significant or widespread problems.
There are many possible reasons why voluntary and private pre-school education and care providers cease to operate. Together with advisory groups, my officials and I take seriously our responsibility to ensure that the risk of displacement is minimised. An important part of this process is the provision of the pre-school database which sets out the numbers of children in an area in order to inform the decision-making process.

Ms Patricia Lewsley: Does the Minister agree that, between the statutory and voluntary sector, people feel that there is now a two-tier system? When a playgroup drops in numbers, its funding is stopped automatically. Funding should be phased out to give the playgroup time to try to get new placements, because it is not given that chance at present.

Mr Martin McGuinness: Playgroups in the five education and library boards are responsible for dealing with pre-school education. There have been difficulties in developing pre-school education. I have met with people in the different sectors to discuss their experiences of transition. It must be remembered that this school year of 2001-02 has 85% provision. There has been an extraordinarily rapid move forward in the past number of years, given the circumstances. From the Department’s point of view, flexibility must be provided, and we are prepared to do that. We are prepared to look at different interest groups’ concerns, and, in consultation with the boards and the pre-school education advisory groups, to ensure that everyone gets a fair crack of the whip.

Ms Jane Morrice: If everyone should get a fair crack of the whip, why do pre-school playgroups which fulfil the criteria, such as the cross-community playgroup in Kircubbin, not receive support or funding?

Mr Martin McGuinness: The mention of Kircubbin is music to Mr McCarthy’s ears. I recently met a delegation involved in pre-school education in Kircubbin. Mr McCarthy accompanied that delegation. We are trying to resolve the difficulties. It is hoped that that will be achieved in due course.

Brytenwalda Tradition

Dr Ian Adamson: 8. asked the Minister of Education if he will ensure the right of children and young people to be taught the history of the Cruthin Kings of Ulster and the British Imperium of Óengus, King of the Picts, in the tradition of the Brytenwalda.
(AQO 258/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: The statutory curriculum is not designed to take up 100% of teaching time. Schools are free to teach additional topics as they wish. That allows them to teach other topics considered important in meeting pupils’ needs. The programme of study for history makes specific allowance for schools to focus on topics of their own choosing. The Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) is currently undertaking a review of the curriculum, including history. At this stage, it would not be appropriate for me to suggest to the council how any particular issue should be covered in the revised curriculum.

Dr Ian Adamson: I asked the question because the Minister is descended from the ancient Cruthin kings of Ulster, as are Alban Maginness, Ken Maginnis and some of the finest DUP supporters in the Kilkeel area. Can the Minister ensure that the shared inheritance of Ulster and Ireland is given due prominence in the curriculum in future?

Mr Martin McGuinness: Many Members on the Benches opposite will be pleased to hear that I am descended from royal blood. That is an interesting analysis. History is an important issue and is something in which Dr Adamson takes a keen interest. The curriculum review provides an opportunity for the CCEA to look at all the different interest areas that Members, or others, may have. Several people have suggested areas of history that should be studied. The Member named but one — there are many others that people believe should be included in the curriculum. I have advised them to put their cases to the CCEA, which will examine them. It is hoped that, as a result of its deliberations, everyone will be given an adequate opportunity to learn, and appreciate, our combined history.

Mr Speaker: Question 9 is in the name of Mr McElduff, but he is not in his place.

Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA)

Mr Danny Kennedy: 10. asked the Minister of Education what costs are associated with the scrutinies carried out by both the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority and the Education and Training Inspectorate on the regulatory functions of CCEA.
(AQO 273/01)

Mr Martin McGuinness: In a typical year, the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority conducts three or four scrutinies of specific subjects at an estimated cost of £5,500 per subject per year. The cost of inspection activity and other Education and Training Inspectorate involvement with CCEA is not calculated separately; however, the cost of the inspectorate’s current three-year survey of the CCEA procedures associated with a sample of four GCE A level subjects will be approximately £50,000.

Mr Speaker: Unfortunately, time is up, so Mr Kennedy will not be able to ask his supplementary question.

Health, Social Services and Public Safety

Transport Services

Ms Pauline Armitage: 1. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what plans she has to involve the private sector in providing transport services for patients travelling from hospital to home.
(AQO 256/01)

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Tá socruithe ag iontaobhais leis an tSeirbhís Otharchairr na hothair sin a iompar a mheastar a bheith neamhábalta de réir míochaine a gcuid socruithe féin a dhéanamh le taisteal abhaile ón ospidéal. Tá cuid de na hiontaobhais i ndiaidh socruithe breise a dhéanamh trí úsáid a bhaint as tiománaithe deonacha, as gnólachtaí príobháideacha tacsaí agus as seirbhísí príobháideacha otharchairr.
Trusts have arrangements with the Ambulance Service to provide transport for those patients considered medically unfit to make their own arrangements to travel home from hospital. Some trusts have supplemented those arrangements with the use of voluntary drivers, private taxi firms and private ambulance services.
I am, however, concerned that fully equipped accident and emergency ambulances are used for general transport. That is not an efficient use of those vehicles, and the private sector may well have a greater role to play than at present.

Ms Pauline Armitage: In April 2001 the journey of one of my constituents from Belvoir Park Hospital to Portstewart lasted five hours. This month a patient was to travel from Coleraine Hospital to a nursing home in Portstewart. An ambulance was called at 11.00 am, and the lady was told to be ready at 1.00 pm. The ambulance eventually arrived at 5.00 pm, so that lady waited all day to travel four miles. I should have thought that in urgent cases, when people are extremely ill, an ambulance was a necessity, but in a simple case where an elderly person is leaving —

Mr Speaker: Order. I must ask the Member to come to her question.

Ms Pauline Armitage: I am getting there, Mr Speaker. I am just slower than the rest of them.

Mr Speaker: Order. One thing that the Member is not is slow. This is an opportunity for questions to the Minister of Health, not for case notes. They are for the Health Service. Please ask your question.

Ms Pauline Armitage: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister consider that if we did perhaps use the private sector, it could be money well spent? The Minister has already told the Health Committee that a modest saving could be made in the trusts and boards. Does the Minister agree that if we make a number of modest savings, we could end up with a major saving?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: I invited the Member to write to me in April, and I reiterate that invitation today with regard to those questions. I am very aware that, due to the pressure on the system, some patients face unacceptable delays in receiving ambulance transport home. In some trusts, therefore, supplementary arrangements are being made with voluntary car drivers, private taxi firms or private ambulance services to ensure that such delays are kept to a minimum.
With regard to the financing of that, trusts need to ensure that their arrangements for the provision of services reflect efficient and cost-effective use of limited resources. That could involve the private sector where appropriate. The type of transport given on the day clearly depends on the clinical condition of the patient, and that information is normally communicated to the ambulance service by the clinician making the request for transport.
I have spoken on several occasions about the restructuring of health and personal social services. Members know that the Executive are looking at public administration. However, I warn people that these moves, when they come about, will not solve the problems of health and social services, which have been underfunded for many years.

Ms Sue Ramsey: What progress, if any, has been made in securing the provision of an air ambulance?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: The cross-border pre-hospital emergency care working group is considering the case for an air ambulance service to cover the whole island. The group will review the location options for it. Those options include an air ambulance that would operate on a North/South basis with costs shared between Belfast and Dublin. The group is commissioning independent advice on the costs and benefits of such a service.

Mr Speaker: Question 2, in the name of Mr Dallat, has been withdrawn.

Homefirst Community Trust

Mr David Ford: 3. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to make a statement on the current financial situation of Homefirst Community Trust.
(AQO 269/01)

Mr Roy Beggs: 8. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to explain the variation in funding and the levels of services provided by different health and social services trusts.
(AQO 275/01)

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Le do chead, a Cheann Comhairle, glacfaidh mé ceisteanna 3 agus 8 le chéile mar go bpléann siad le hábhair atá cosúil le chéile.
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 3 and 8 together.
Maidir leis an staid airgeadais reatha in Iontaobhas Pobail Homefirst SSS, dar leis an iontaobhas faoi láthair go bhféadfadh sé tarlú go mbeadh róchaiteachas de £1·6 milliún a bheith aige. Chuir an t-iontaobhas plean teagmhasach faoi bhráid na Roinne ina raibh réimse roghanna faoi conas aghaidh a thabhairt ar an easnamh a d’fhéadfadh a bheith ann.
Maidir leis an dara ceist, tá roinnt cúiseanna ann a mbeadh difir ann i maoiniú agus i leibhéil seirbhíse ar fud iontaobhas. Is iad na príomhfhactóirí is cúis leis sin ná aois agus méid na ndaonraí a bhfuil siad ag freastal orthu agus leibhéal coibhneasta riachtanais sna daonraí sin.
Homefirst Community Trust projects a potential overspend of £1·6 million. The trust has submitted a contingency plan to the Department that outlines options to address the potential deficit.
There are several reasons for the difference in funding and service levels across trusts. The key factors that contribute to that are the size and age of the populations they serve and the relative level of need in those populations. The elderly, for example, make more intensive use of care facilities than the rest of the population. It is also accepted that levels of morbidity and need are higher in deprived areas. The profile of local services is sensitive to those issues, and the demand for acute hospital services has also shown a dramatic increase in recent years, which has created particular problems for those trusts that provide such services.

Mr David Ford: It is clear that a deficit of £1·6 million is significant for a community trust. Can the Minister estimate the costs that are currently incurred by acute hospital trusts because of problems such as bed blocking? Many other problems can occur; for example, in the field of psychiatry, the simple failure to provide community services when problems become more acute and must be dealt with by inpatient services is resulting in greater costs than there would be if the problems were dealt with by community-based teams. Homefirst Community Trust appears to be having to remove post-operative community staff. Is the Minister not concerned that, once again, the acute hospitals are wagging the entire departmental dog?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: I do not agree with the suggestion that acute hospitals are wagging either a departmental dog or an entire service dog. They are part and parcel of an integrated service. I have stated in the past that all community services are important, and the Member will know that a community care review of services for the elderly is in the early stages of examining the impact of delayed discharge.
In recognition of the impact that that will have, I provided several million pounds in August for services in the community. On the difficulties that acute hospitals and health trusts are facing, 12 trusts have prepared contingency plans to address their deficits.
I have stated time and again, here and elsewhere, that the current financial position is based on a history of the failure of resources to keep pace with demand. I am therefore trying to secure additional funding for health and personal social services for the coming years from the Minister of Finance and Personnel and from Executive Colleagues. The funding is needed to address the specific cost pressures that all trusts face in coping with the unprecedented demand on our health and social services. I know that Members will be debating that issue, among others, in the debate on the draft Budget proposals that the Executive have brought forward.

Mr Roy Beggs: What role does the Department have in ensuring equity of provision of services to all areas? Does the Minister acknowledge that services for care in the community are grossly underfunded in the Homefirst Community Health and Social Services Trust area? Does she accept that, irrespective of the causes, she and her Department are ultimately responsible for ensuring that there is equality in the provision of community care services to all areas in Northern Ireland?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: The Department monitors the performance of trusts against the targets set out in their service delivery plans, which are agreed annually with their main commissioners — the health and social services boards. The plans are subject to endorsement by my Department.
Boards are responsible for funding health trusts to meet the costs of the services that they provide. The Department encourages the boards to use its capitation formula to inform their allocations, and it has produced guidelines to assist them in that task. The Department does not insist that the boards mechanistically apply the formula. However, I want to ensure that the boards use the formula to inform their decisions on how that formula should operate at local level. Under the TSN agenda, I expect the process to be refined, and, over time, the boards will be expected to demonstrate that resources have been applied equitably.
I recognise that there is a need to increase funding in community services, particularly in the Northern Board area. However, the Department’s ability to address that issue is constrained by the overall level of resources available. I am aware that there have been ongoing discussions between Homefirst Community Health and Social Services Trust and the Northern Board on the levels of home-help provision and the resources available to the trust.

Acute Hospital Services Review

Mr Joe Byrne: 4. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety when she will make decisions in the light of the review of acute hospital services.
(AQO 274/01)

Mr Derek Hussey: 9. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to indicate the timescale for completion of the decision-making process in respect of the review of acute hospital services.
(AQO 264/01)

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Le do chead, a Cheann Chomhairle, glacfaidh mé ceisteanna 4 agus 9 le chéile mar go mbaineann an dá cheann le todhchaí seirbhísí ospidéal géarchúraim.
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 4 and 9 together because they both relate to decisions about the future of acute hospital services.
Nuair a foilsíodh tuairisc an ghrúpa athbhreithnithe ar ghéarospidéil i mí an Mheithimh, d’eisigh mé an tuairisc le hagaidh tréimhse comhairliúcháin phoiblí a chríochnóidh ar 31 Deireadh Fómhair. I ndiaidh toradh an phróisis a mheas agus caibidil a dhéanamh le Comhghleacaithe ar an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin, is féidir moltaí ar an bhealach chun tosaigh a chur faoi chomhairliúchán. Tá súil agam bheith i riocht cinntí a fhógairt le linn 2002.
Following its publication in June, I issued the Acute Hospitals Review Group’s report for a period of public consultation that will end on 31 October.
After there has been consideration of the outcome, and discussion with Executive Colleagues, proposals on the way forward will be published for consultation. I hope to be in a position to announce decisions in 2002.

Mr Joe Byrne: Does the Minister accept that the sustainability factor should be a core consideration in any review strategy for acute hospital services? Given that the Hayes review considered accessibility only, will the Minister assure us that sustainability will now feature strongly in the Department’s final deliberations on the future of acute services? Can she further assure us that the people of Tyrone will not be dealt a mortal health blow as a result of the Hayes review’s proposal for the Tyrone County Hospital? The hospital’s viability has been put in jeopardy. There seems to be a constant threat to its well-established and excellent range of medical and acute services, in particular its ear, nose and throat and renal dialysis departments and its associated supporting services, including its medical laboratory facilities.

Mr Speaker: Order. This is an opportunity to ask questions, not to make a speech about the undoubted benefits and qualities of Omagh. I think the Minister has heard the question.

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Mr McElduff has put down a question regarding funding for the Tyrone County Hospital. The answer to that may well be of interest to Mr Byrne. The report that was issued for consultation contains far-reaching proposals that I will consider with Executive Colleagues. I issued the report for an initial pre-consultation period, to last until 31 October 2001, so that Members, the public, Health Service staff and those patients or prospective patients who will be affected by proposed changes can raise issues. At the end of that period I will examine the issues raised, including those that Members mention today and others that have been raised in letters to the Department.
However, I stress that no decisions have yet been taken or will be taken prior to consultation and that any proposed changes to the long-term future of our acute hospitals will be subject to an equality impact assessment.

Mr Derek Hussey: I must reiterate one question that was asked by Mr Byrne, because the Minister has not answered it. Does the Minister agree that sustainability of hospital services is a key consideration in determining the future profile of acute hospital provision? Will she take that into account when considering the site for a new hospital for the rural west as part of a review of acute services in Northern Ireland? Furthermore, I note from an edition of ‘the Irish News’ of last week that pre-consultation meetings are to be held in Belfast this Thursday and in Londonderry on the 23 October. Can the Minister tell us when such pre-consultation exercises will be undertaken in the rural west?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: I will contact the Member with details of any meetings that may take place in his area. Several factors were brought to my attention in the pre- consultation period and will be considered when we look at the overall picture. I stress that, at this point, the review is pre-consultation. Following discussion with Executive Colleagues and examination of any proposals for changes in the future, including the issues that the Member has mentioned, those proposals will be put out to consultation. All proposals will be subject to an equality impact assessment.

Mr Oliver Gibson: While we are awaiting the decision on the location of the new hospital in the rural west, will the Minister give an assurance that there will be no diminution of services in either the Tyrone County Hospital or the Erne Hospital? People in Tyrone County Hospital are fearful — and this has already been put to the Minister by a delegation — that someone is already implementing a report that is only consultative in nature but which is being interpreted as a final outcome. Can the Minister assure both hospitals that there will be no diminution of service in the meantime?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: I can assure all those who have an interest in health and personal social services that I have made it clear that until more long-term decisions are made, I expect every effort to be made to maintain existing services. Where, for any reason, this proves impossible, any changes made must be the minimum necessary to ensure safety and quality, and must be temporary.

Mr Gerry McHugh: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Hayes addresses the issue of sustainability very well — people from those areas should read the report. The Minister said that the decision would be taken in 2002. Will she agree with me that it is vital, as far as services and sustainability in those hospitals are concerned, that the date be sooner — as early as possible? Can the Minister say how early the decision could be made?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Mr McHugh is the third Member to raise the question of sustainability. I reiterate that I will be looking carefully at the recommendations in this area, along with other recommendations and matters brought to my attention. I will of course want to hear the views of everyone affected by the proposed changes, as well as those health professionals who deliver the services.
I have stated clearly that following discussions with Executive Colleagues I expect to be able to make decisions in 2002 and that we will have proposals brought forward for consultation. I want to resolve the uncertainty about the future of our hospitals as soon as possible. As the Member knows only too well, some factors are completely outside my control, and they may influence the timing of decisions on these important issues. For example, if the former First Minister goes ahead with withdrawing Ulster Unionist Ministers from the Executive, that may delay both the consideration of the initial public reaction to the recommendations in the review group’s report and also the planned public consultation on proposals for the way forward. The matter can only be discussed if there are Executive Colleagues. I cannot give people a guarantee, but I can explain my plans for the way forward. I am basing my timing on conditions that I have some control over.

Hospital Beds

Mr Seamus Close: 5. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what percentage of hospital beds are allocated as intensive care beds.
(AQO 255/01)

Ms Bairbre de Brún: Le linn na bliana 2000-2001 as an mheán de 8,600 leaba a bhí ar fáil gach lá, bhí thart ar 1% ainmnithe mar chinn dianchúraim. Is féidir cuid de na leapacha sin a athrú idir dianchúram agus ardspleáchas, ag brath ar an riachtanas.
During the year 2000-01, of the average of 8,600 beds available each day, some 1% were designated as intensive care. Depending on need, some of these beds are interchangeable between intensive care and high dependency.

Mr Seamus Close: I thank the Minister for her reply, though it is disappointing, bearing in mind some other statistics. In the USA, for example, around 10% of beds are designated for intensive care; Germany, I understand, has designated 5% of its beds, and the UK overall runs at around 3%. Can the Minister advise me of the current occupancy rate across Northern Ireland? Is it still above the recommended 70%? What steps have been taken and what progress has been made, if any, towards implementing the recommendations of the Chief Medical Officer’s report with regard to the number of intensive care beds in Northern Ireland?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: In percentage terms, it is difficult to make direct comparisons. There are different systems in different places. We looked at the Chief Medical Officer’s recommendations, as well as the guidelines from the Clinical Resource Efficiency Support Team (CREST), and they suggest that between 1% and 2% of our acute beds should be provided for intensive care. Currently, the figure is approximately 1%.
I am committed to ensuring that all patients receive the treatment that they expect and deserve. That is why I asked the Chief Medical Officer to progress that review prior to the Assembly’s first suspension. Demand for intensive care continues to increase as a result of recent advances in medicine and surgery. The increased provision of intensive care and high dependency beds of the past year, together with the plans for future expansion, will contribute significantly to the care of very ill patients.
We have increased the number of beds available. Of the 26 recommendations in the Chief Medical Officer’s review of intensive care services, nine have been fully implemented and plans are in place to implement the remainder over the next three years. An extra 10 intensive care beds and 11 high dependency beds have been provided, and there are plans for a further expansion of high dependency provision.

Mr Edwin Poots: Is the Minister aware that the lack of adequate numbers of intensive care beds has led to one of our top consultant surgeons leaving the Province? There was not enough work for consultants, due to a shortage of beds after surgery. Does the Minister recognise that many patients who require cancer treatment are taken into wards and starved the night before they are scheduled to have their operation, only to be told that the operation cannot take place because the intensive care bed that they require has already been taken? Does she further recognise that the extra beds that have been provided in the Royal Victoria Hospital will not meet those people’s needs?

Ms Bairbre de Brún: It is inappropriate to suggest why a consultant might have left a position and moved elsewhere, unless that consultant expressed a reason. I am not aware of any such suggestion in this case.
I have looked at the availability of intensive care and high dependency provision, and I realise that there is work to be done. I explained that in my answer to the previous question. It should be realised that a considerable amount of high dependency and intensive care provision has already been brought into service, and there are plans for further expansion of high dependency provision.
I have been advised that most cancer patients requiring surgery do not need an intensive care bed. However, the increased provision of intensive care and high dependency beds that has already taken place, together with plans for expansion, will make a significant contribution to the care of very ill patients. Worthwhile work has been done. There are some shortcomings in intensive care provision which have an impact on services, and that highlights the need for further investment. Planning has been developed and further progress will be made.

Neo-Natal Screening

Ms Patricia Lewsley: 7. asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to provide an update regarding neo-natal screening for deafness.
(AQO 283/01)

Ms Bairbre de Brún: I ndiaidh measúnú ar na hiarratais ó iontaobhais, táthar ag súil go mbeidh Otharlann Ríoga Victoria ina láithreán píolótach do scagadh éisteachta nua-naíche anseo. Mar sin féin, braithfidh seo ar cé acu a riarfaidh sé ar na riachtanais bhreise a aithníodh le linn na cuairte leis an láithreán a mheasúnú.
When the trusts’ applications have been assessed, it is anticipated that the Royal Victoria Hospital will become the pilot site for neonatal hearing screening here. However, that is subject to its meeting the further requirements that were raised at the site assessment visit.

Ms Patricia Lewsley: When will the pilot scheme start? It was, after all, supposed to start in June of this year. Deafness in between five and 10 babies may have gone undetected through their not being screened.

Ms Bairbre de Brún: This was part of a wider pilot scheme. The main pilot scheme, which is based in England, is not due to commence until the end of this year. That is because of problems encountered with many of the applications with regard to the need to ensure uniformity, the adoption of protocols and the development of standards and appropriate information technology support. The pilot scheme in the Royal Victoria Hospital is scheduled to commence early next year, only a few months after the main pilot scheme.

Finance and Personnel

Publicity

Mr P J Bradley: 1. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if he is apprised of all press cuttings that are kept by other Departments relating to public comments, statements and actions made by civil servants who also serve as elected representatives.
(AQO 261/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: The Department of Finance and Personnel is not notified as a matter of routine of instances where the activities of members of staff have been reported in the press. Each Department is responsible for retaining such information as it deems necessary for the effective management of staff. The decision on whether particular information is relevant to an individual’s employment rests with that Department.

Mr P J Bradley: Can the Minister give an assurance that if civil servants who are elected representatives make statements that are reported in the media, these statements will not be used by their superiors in the Civil Service to discriminate against them?

Mr Mark Durkan: All civil servants are bound by rules of conduct and behaviour in and outside the workplace. A Department may grant an individual permission to participate in political activity, but such permission is subject to a code of discretion. It is for the employing Department to determine whether there has been a breach of the rules and to take appropriate action in the light of all the circumstances and with regard to civil service policies on harassment, bullying and equal opportunities.

Government Purchasing Agency

Mr Conor Murphy: 2. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give his assessment of the performance targets set for the Government Purchasing Agency for 2001-02.
(AQO 263/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: The targets that I set for the Government Purchasing Agency for 2001-02 and that I announced to the Assembly in July are designed to demonstrate to the agency’s customers and to other stakeholders how their needs and expectations are being met by the agency. They cover two main areas: the efficiency of the agency itself and the benefit that it brings to customers. They fall under four headings: finance, output, quality and efficiency. These targets are demanding but achievable; achieving them will ultimately benefit the taxpayer.

Mr Conor Murphy: I thank the Minister for outlining those categories. Why are there no references to equality objectives in the performance targets that he has set for the Government Purchasing Agency?

Mr Mark Durkan: I have already listed the areas covered by the performance targets. The agency is a key entity as far as Government procurement policy is concerned. It is in the context of the review of public procurement, which is now the subject of consultation, that we considered equality and targeting social need. The procurement review will consider Government procurement and matters covered by the work of the Government Purchasing Agency.

PFI/PPP Projects

Mr Eugene McMenamin: 3. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline the criteria upon which PFI/PPP projects will be considered.
(AQO 280/01)

PPP Working Group

Ms Patricia Lewsley: 6. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if the PPP working group forum will be encouraged to take submissions from those groups/ agencies that have an interest in this subject.
(AQO 281/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 3 and 6 together. The key criteria used to judge whether a project should be taken forward through PPP include whether there is a reasonable prospect of obtaining an outcome which would give value for money and be viable and affordable. This is tested through the completion of an outline business case before a project is approved for PPP procurement.
The answer to the second question is "Yes". The PPP working group is inviting views and opinions through public consultation, and I encourage all those interested to make written submissions to the joint secretariat.

Mr Eugene McMenamin: Will the PPP review group consider the possibility of involving the community and voluntary sectors in the provision of PPP solutions?

Mr Mark Durkan: I thank Mr McMenamin for that suggestion. The working group established to review the use of PPP to address our infrastructure deficit and service needs as part of the Executive’s commitment in the Programme for Government includes representatives from the community and voluntary sectors. We will also consider all feasible partnership arrangements. The work of the review is not confined to looking at private finance initiatives or public-private partnerships. Where feasible it will also include multi-sectoral partnerships.

Ms Patricia Lewsley: Will the Minister assure us that every attempt will be made to ensure that public-sector employees affected by any PPP will be treated fairly, with comparable terms and conditions of employment?

Mr Mark Durkan: I can assure Ms Lewsley that in all PPP projects which involve transfers of employees from the public to the private sector their terms and conditions of employment will be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 1981. In accordance with Treasury guidance, comparable pensions provision will be made.

Mr Speaker: Question 4 has been withdrawn. Question 5 is in the name of Mr McNamee, but I do not see him in his place. Question 7 has been withdrawn.

Government Departments (Absenteeism)

Mr Roy Beggs: 8. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what assessment he has made of the current level of absenteeism within each Government Department and what action has been taken to encourage improvements.
(AQO 276/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: Each Government Department closely monitors its level of absenteeism. Mr Beggs will already be aware from my previous written answer of the average levels of absenteeism in each of the Northern Ireland Civil Service Departments during 2000-01. The different levels of absenteeism in Departments reflect, among other things, varying age, grade and gender profiles. Work undertaken by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) has provided Departments with a comprehensive overview of their sick-leave absences and a sound baseline to enable them to identify underlying trends and causes and to enable more in-depth analysis and targeting of problem areas. Departments are taking action to reduce their levels of absenteeism.

Mr Roy Beggs: Does the Minister accept that there is a huge variation in absenteeism, from 4·4% to 8·4%? Does he acknowledge that this can be a result of local management or of the stress levels of the workers involved? What assessment has he made of the underfunding in the social care services that may have contributed to the high levels of absenteeism in that area?

Mr Mark Durkan: There is a significant range in the absenteeism figures. I have said that some of those differences are related to the different age, gender and grade profiles in Departments. NISRA has been helping Departments to identify underlying trends and causes. Each Department must address its own cultural problems. I have no indication of serious problems of lack of care in any one Department. The point of these statistics is to identify any problems that exist. That task falls to individual Departments as well as to the central personnel group.

Mr Gerry McHugh: Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Can the Minister tell us whether these levels of absenteeism compare well with other sectors, such as the private sector? Are they partly caused by the extra pressure of questions from Members of the Assembly?

Mr Mark Durkan: I thank the Member for his confession. Comparisons of absenteeism levels can be made. Unfortunate comparisons have been made between the absenteeism levels in the Civil Service and those indicated in a postal survey carried out by the Confederation of British Industry (CBI). I caution that the figures in the CBI report do not provide a meaningful comparison, as they deal with absenteeism across the United Kingdom in a range of private sector organisations of very different sizes, and are calculated on a different basis. They do not allow for the sort of factors that are taken account of in our figures.
All Members are aware that different Departments have seen an increase in their workload, and that working pressures have been added to as a result of the greater accountability that the Assembly and other institutions afford. However, I do not believe that those pressures are expressing themselves in absenteeism levels.

Barnett Formula

Mr John Fee: 9. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel if he has entered into consultation with HM Treasury to secure additional resources, and whether he will ensure that discussions on the Barnett formula reflect the needs of our society.
(AQO 284/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: Earlier this year, the then First Minister and the Deputy First Minister met with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to discuss a range of issues, including the operation of the Barnett formula. Senior officials in the Department of Finance and Personnel have also had a series of meetings with Treasury officials to discuss Northern Ireland’s funding allocations as determined by the Barnett formula. The 2002 spending review sets the context for negotiations on the Barnett formula with the Treasury.

Mr John Fee: Does the Minister agree that the Barnett formula is not widely understood, and that Northern Ireland is distinctly disadvantaged by it? Resources for our health, education, roads infrastructure and other public services are inhibited by the Barnett formula. We need to renegotiate it, and our local Ministers need to display the type of flair, creativity and imagination that will allow them to use resources to the utmost effect.

Mr Mark Durkan: I am happy to agree with the Member that the nature and detail of the Barnett formula are not widely understood. Since devolution, people have become very familiar with the term, and the need for it to change has been a constant refrain in this Chamber. We also need to recognise that while we have one particular view of the effects of the Barnett formula on ourselves and how those effects can be compounded over time, other areas do not see its impact and our needs in the same way. We need to recognise that there are other regional views and there are other questions for us to face in regard to the spending levels of some of our programmes.
While we can argue that some key programmes, such as health, are being increasingly jeopardised by the Barnett formula, others can point to spending programmes where we are continuing to spend at a rate considerably higher than the UK average. That raises issues for us concerning the prioritisation of, and within, spending programmes.
I agree with the Member that we cannot always be looking for more money from the Barnett formula or from some other funding formula. We must do more with the money we have. We must provide the essential services needed by the most efficient and effective means possible, and thereby release valuable resources to develop other services.

Health Service

Mr Seamus Close: 10. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give his assessment regarding the potential release of moneys from departmental budgets to alleviate the crisis in the Health Service.
(AQO 296/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: Ministers will consider the views of Assembly Members, Committees and others in respect of proposals for modifying the draft Budget for 2002-03, in accordance with the timetable set out in the document I presented to the Assembly on 25 September. The Executive will shortly consider the scope for reallocating resources for 2001-02 in the monitoring round, and that will include consideration of Health Service funding issues.

Mr Seamus Close: I thank the Minister for his reply, although I am surprised by it. He is aware that I have attempted to table questions to individual Ministers regarding the possible release of moneys from their respective budgets, only to find that those questions were kicked into touch through being referred to him. Is this a case of passing the buck? Is someone afraid to grasp the nettle?

Mr Mark Durkan: The Member has asked Ministerial Colleagues a series of questions. He asked several Ministers if they would be prepared to release £10 million from their departmental budgets next year to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety’s budget. The questions were referred to me because they are common to the Budget; they are not specific to any individual Department. The questions are relatively speculative.
In the Budget deliberations, the Executive set out to achieve more room to manoeuvre than the Executive’s position report indicated that we had. We examined several options and tested several issues including uniform cuts in resource budgets across Departments; uniform curbs on departmental running costs; and an examination of other means to release more assets. Departments made clear the difficulties they would have if they were to get a smaller allocation than last year’s indicative allocations had suggested.
The Executive recognise that there are very real pressures on all Departments. However, we also recognise that there are very acute pressures on Health Service spending, and that is one of the reasons why in this draft Budget the allocation for the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety has increased significantly above the indicative allocation that was announced last December for 2002-03. The Executive have tried to address the particular pressures within the Health Service.
The Member will appreciate that the Executive had the benefit of the report from the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the Executive position report, which reflected the views of the various departmental Committees. There was no suggestion in the various departmental contributions that any of them could do with less money. On the contrary, representatives underlined the needs and pressures of their own Departments.

Mr Jim Shannon: It is not only the release of moneys that is needed to alleviate the crisis in the Health Service. Does the Minister agree that his Department must also monitor the spending on health board offices, such as those of the Ulster Community and Hospital HSS Trust, to ensure that money is spent cost-effectively?

Mr Mark Durkan: Funding levels do not determine the full value that can be obtained, through services, out of public expenditure. As I have previously said, we must not only ensure that we have bids and ambitions for services; we must also have sound plans. Those plans need to be implemented efficiently and effectively.
It falls to Departments to manage the more precise allocations beyond the general headings that are presented in the Budget. It also falls to those Departments to monitor the performance and effectiveness of the public bodies and other entities that are used to deliver departmental services and programmes.

Mr Peter Weir: Given the crisis in the Health Service, what consideration has been given to reallocating funds which have been put into the Executive programme funds but which have not yet been placed in any destination?

Mr Mark Durkan: The Executive programme funds are an important device created by the Executive, in the context of devolution, to try to drive a wedge between the patterns of spending that we inherited and the patterns that we need to create under devolution to reflect our distinctive priorities. There has already been one significant tranche of allocations from Executive programme funds and there will be another one soon.
Members will be aware that some advance commitments have been made to cover, for instance, the gas pipelines and the commitment to expenditure on roads that was reflected in the Programme for Government.
In looking at further allocations from Executive programme funds, the Executive are well aware of some of the pressures that are facing particular services, not least the Health Service. We have already allocated significant funds from Executive programme funds — including the infrastructure and capital renewal fund — to the Health Service. There is no reason to believe that the Department, with its service pressures, will not be in a position to usefully bid for allocations from Executive programme funds in the future.

Peace II Programme

Mrs Annie Courtney: 11. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to give an update on the Peace II programme.
(AQO 278/01)

Mr Mark Durkan: The Peace II programme is a complex programme, under which a range of detailed stages had to be completed before calls for projects could be made. Those stages have now been completed or are nearing completion. Intermediary funding bodies have been appointed as implementing bodies under the programme, Departments are finalising arrangements for the measures for which they are responsible, and the detailed work of establishing new local strategy partnerships is nearing a conclusion.
Calls for projects will be issued over the coming weeks for some of the main aspects of the Peace II programme, with grants likely to be awarded from December or January onwards. As funding bodies call for projects, the application forms, and guidance on how to apply, will be available from the Department of Finance and Personnel and the Special EU Programmes Body web site.
The extension to the gap funding arrangements that I announced recently will ensure that funding continues for projects until the formal application and selection processes have been completed.

Mrs Annie Courtney: I thank the Minister for his answer. Can he confirm that the recent gap funding announcement will enable front-line community groups to carry on their vital work? Does the Minister agree that that would not have happened under the direct rule status to which some parties here would have us return?

Mr Mark Durkan: The recent announcement that extends the current round of gap funding should go a long way to ensuring that funding for projects continues until the formal application and selection processes for Peace II have been completed. In this context, I agree that the relatively ready access of community and voluntary groups to Ministers in the devolved Administration has allowed concerns to be voiced directly to Colleagues and me. In turn, this has meant that we in the Departments have been able to take these considerations into account when planning and managing European structural funds and wider public expenditure issues.

Mr Derek Hussey: I listened with great interest to that answer, particularly with regard to the gap funding arrangements, which will allow continuity to enable existing projects to enter into the next phase. In general that is to be welcomed.
Is the Minister confident that the Peace II programme will successfully address the difficulties we encountered in securing applications from the rural Protestant community? Will it redress the imbalance of the previous programme that was admitted to in the House by his party Colleague and present Acting Deputy First Minister?

Mr Mark Durkan: The arrangements for Peace II have involved extensive and elaborate consultation and monitoring exercises as well as evaluations of Peace I. We learnt lessons from Peace I about measures, schemes and models that worked, but we also recognise that more has to be done in the targeting of some areas.
The point that the Member refers to was supposed to be the subject of some significant admission by Séamus Mallon, which was reflected in an interim report a couple of years ago by Northern Ireland’s three MEPs who recognised that there was an imbalance. In that letter they also stated that there was no question of discrimination, that it was to do with patterns of application rather than with any skewing of allocations.
Horizontal principles will apply in the next programme. They include strong consideration of equality and balanced intervention. The horizontal principle is one in which all Government Departments have a conscientious interest, as does the European Commission. That interest has been reflected by the three monitoring committees of the Peace II operational programme for building sustainable prosperity and the community support framework monitoring committee. That interest will be followed through in all the work that is being carried out with respect to Peace II.

Mr Jim Wells: I looked forward to this Question Time — it is the hottest ticket in town. It has all been side- splitting stuff up to now, and maybe my question will be no different. However, I am being facetious.
Returning to the serious matter of the Peace II funding packages, does the Minister accept that the process to date has been painfully slow and that many community groups are at the end of their tether waiting for the situation to be sorted out? We have heard promise after promise that this would be dealt with, and each time the Minister has been asked about it on the Floor of the House we have been told that it would happen tomorrow. Tomorrow never seems to come. Now that we have reached the end of the tunnel, can the Minister give us a categorical assurance that every effort will be made to hasten the entire process? Will he devote his efforts, and those of his officials, to making sure that he can deliver on time, as many groups are suffering greatly as a result of the delays that his Department has overseen?

Mr Mark Durkan: First of all, I refute any suggestion that my Department has been responsible for delays. Bringing the Peace II programme to land has been slow and painful. However, we have to remember that the community support framework is a document of the European Commission, and that was only agreed to last December. The Department was unable to move on the operational programmes and the programme complements until the Commission had delivered the community support framework. Following agreement on the operational programmes, the Department moved to agree the programme complements. Those were signed in March, meeting EU regulations.
The Department of Finance and Personnel and other Departments have worked to ensure that the targets and timetable requirements of EU legislation were met. The Department has also set up monitoring committees that are more effective and meaningful for this round of community support framework money than was the case in the last round. Parties in the House are represented on those monitoring committees, as are a range of other interests. Everyone involved in the exercises is aware of the quality and intensity of the effort that has been expended by my officials. The Department is now determined to follow through quickly for Peace II money. The Department has not been able to achieve that as early as it would have liked, and is, therefore, making further arrangements for gap funding. The Department has now moved forward with other aspects of Peace II. Some calls for projects are now taking place, and more will follow. The Department is moving with all possible speed.
Adjourned at 4.01 pm.